Boat Wiring Question

[ginga]

I am preparing to rewire an older boat and was reading recommendations in the forum. I see that marine tinned wire is recommended but it also says not to splice wires together and use connectors. What about if I solder the wires together? Is that a better connection than the connectors? Thanks for any recommendations

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

solder generally makes the wire stiff/brittle and prone to fatique cracking at the terminal.

a good crimp connetor and adhesive lined heat shrink is perfect.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

If you need to use a lot of soldered joints or butt splice connectors, then you need to re-think the wiring. Wiring should be point-to-point and not have a bunch of in-line splices as they simply create new points of failure. For fresh water use there is nothing inherently wrong with a good solder joint that is properly heat shrink insulated and the wiring properly supported. If wiring is allowed to dangle it doesn't matter how you splice it, there will be an eventual failure. The best wiring is done when you actually "plan" and "diagram" the project. Simply stringing wire generally results in a worse situation than you had in first place. There are a bunch of diagrams in this forum that will help you with this process. Use the search feature to locate those threads.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

If its just a butt connection and the wire isn't rigidly fixed, soldering is fine. Its when you use ring connectors or when the wire is held rigidly where you have the bigger problem using solder and you should just crimp those. Secret is to get a good crimp tool...not a cheap one at Home Depot and get quality connectors like Ancor.

Amazon.com: Ancor 701030 Double Crimp Tool: Sports & Outdoors

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

If you solder wire together the joint needs to be supported so there is no flexing or the wire will break at the joint
Another common misconception dictates that the best of all connections is a soldered connection. However with stranded wire, the solder bonds the individual strands together, making a solid, inflexible wire. ABYC standards prohibit soldering as the sole means of making a connection because the newly solid wire is subject to cracking or breaking through vibration and flexing. A more practical solution is to use a crimp connector described above. Wires should never be joined simply by soldering and taping (or heat shrink); however, if solder is used, use only 60%/40% rosin core or solid solder, soldering after the butt connector is crimped. Acid core solder as used in plumbing may never be used in any electrical wiring.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

i bought this pair of crimpers on clearance at a local hardware store. BEST set of crimpers i ever owned

https://www.channellock.com/crimper.aspx

yeah there a touch on the expensive side but once you use them you wont put them down

the thing i like with them is the crimper is in the jaws not in the handle alot of times your working in tight quarters and have a hard time maneuvering the crimper over the wire. these ones you just reach in crimp the wire and move on.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Those Channel lock crimpers are the type I would stay away from. Those are the type Home Depot sells.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Whats wrong with them

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Whats wrong with them

The ones I posted above do a double crimp. They are also calibrated to the size of the terminal you are using so they put the proper pressure on the crimp depending on its size.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

point taken

 

[jhebert]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

If you need to use a lot of soldered joints or butt splice connectors, then you need to re-think the wiring. Wiring should be point-to-point and not have a bunch of in-line splices as they simply create new points of failure.

This advice is especially true on a small boat. On a typical 20-foot boat the longest conductor won't be more than 30-feet long. There is no reason for any conductor to contain splices. Just replace with a new, one-piece, non-spliced conductor.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Electricians have been using crimpers like those Channel Lock crimpers for decades. I do not see anything about them that disqualifies them for use on a boat. I find them to be excellent crimpers.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Electricians have been using crimpers like those Channel Lock crimpers for decades. I do not see anything about them that disqualifies them for use on a boat. I find them to be excellent crimpers.

You will not find crimpers like that in any engineering lab or production area. Bottom line, if you want to use the best tool for the job, you pay more for the best tool.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

You will not find crimpers like that in any engineering lab or production area. Bottom line, if you want to use the best tool for the job, you pay more for the best tool.

With those same criteria, I can tell you that you won't see that $70 ANCOR crimper, either. Production tooling provides a precision position of the workpiece, which is clearly lacking. Production tooling uses precise pressure.

As far as I can see, the only different between the ANCOR and the KLEIN TOOL crimper is one is sold to skilled tradesmen for $30 and the other is sold to boaters who fancy themselves to be electricians for $70.

Please do not try to invoke the terms "laboratory" or "production" as a way of explaining the difference between two manually operated crimpers that both lack any sort of position jigs for the workpiece.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Please do not try to invoke the terms "laboratory" or "production" as a way of explaining the difference between two manually operated crimpers that both lack any sort of position jigs for the workpiece.

As usual you miss the point. They types of crimpers that you think are just fine have ZERO way to control any pressure! How do you control the pressure with those when you have different sizes of crimps? The ones I posted do control pressure and can be adjusted as they wear.

Curious what types of crimpers do you actually use. You use the Home Depot $30 crimpers on your boat...really?

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

Bottom line, if you want to use the best tool for the job, you pay more for the best tool.

I have a Snap-on crimper that looks a lot like the Channel lock but has different size slots for different size wire. I also have a similar unit that doesn't even have a name on it, and the "no name" unit does a better crimp. So who knows?

 

[banshee owner]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

sorry i started this argument and hijacked the thread my bad

but really who cares who uses what set of crimpers as long they work for the individual using them and the wires don't come apart

 

[jhebert]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

[Directed to me]...what types of crimpers do you actually use[?]

I use a variety of crimpers. For uninsulated ring terminal connectors I use a KLIEN TOOLS crimper. It is similar to one of the ones linked above which you dismiss as inappropriate. For insulated ring terminals I use a MOLEX crimper. For really large gauge wire I use a hydraulically operated crimper with die sets for each wire gauge in 1-gauge steps.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

As usual you miss the point.

I disagree. The "as usual" part was to point out the fallacy of your argument.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Boat Wiring Question

I disagree[what else is new]. The "as usual" part was to point out the fallacy of your argument[of course].

Fixed it for you.