Boat swamped, let's see if we can get it running...

[nola mike]

I feel better about asking that question now.

 

[nola mike]

somewhere on the other side of the world is a guy with a mysterious pile of grease in his bilge.......

@achris ?

 

[flashback]

No way this will end good.

 

[Scott Danforth]

@achris ?

˙˙˙˙˙doʇ-┴ sᴉɥ ɟo ǝpᴉsɹǝpun ǝɥʇ uo ǝq plnoʍ ʇᴉ 'sᴉɹɥƆ ɥʇᴉʍ 'ɥɐN

 

[nola mike]

˙˙˙˙˙doʇ-┴ sᴉɥ ɟo ǝpᴉsɹǝpun ǝɥʇ uo ǝq plnoʍ ʇᴉ 'sᴉɹɥƆ ɥʇᴉʍ 'ɥɐN

whoa....

In other news, this is how the day went:



Splash! Late in the day before I was able to get out there, so only went about 7-8 miles. Got it up to about 4300 RPM/42 MPH and wasn't into the secondaries but didn't want to push it on day 1. Overall running well. Biggest issue was that it does not like part throttle at all, more so after it warmed up. Was idling very low, and didn't like the gradual throttle transition at all. If I laid into it, it jumped up and went. Realizing that I'm not sure if I checked my timing. So hoping I just need to fiddle with the mix screws and idle speed, rather than a screwed up carb rebuild. But overall very good news.

 

[velociraptorfarmer]

Sounds just like how mine was acting until I tuned the carb last summer. Didn't want to idle, and would fall on its face until you got it over 2 grand.

It's pretty easy to tune the idle on them. Base for the idle mixture screw is 1 1/2 turns left from full in. From there, fire it up and get it warm. Then, put it in gear while idling in the water. Adjust the idle speed screw on the carb to whatever the manual says for your engine (I think it's 650rpm for most of them) with a good tach or timing light. Next play with the mixture screw until you're about in the middle of where it sounds like it's running best. Too far right or left and it'll be lean or rich and run like crap. Once you find the happy place for that, go back and check idle speed again.

After that's all happy, try revving it up slowly. If it falls on its face at any point, you might have to make a slight adjustment to the mixture screw one way or the other. Otherwise, you should be set.

You really only need a flathead screwdriver and a 7/32" socket to tune the things.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Sounds just like how mine was acting until I tuned the carb last summer. Didn't want to idle, and would fall on its face until you got it over 2 grand.

It's pretty easy to tune the idle on them. Base for the idle mixture screw is 1 1/2 turns left from full in. From there, fire it up and get it warm. Then, put it in gear while idling in the water. Adjust the idle speed screw on the carb to whatever the manual says for your engine (I think it's 650rpm for most of them) with a good tach or timing light. Next play with the mixture screw until you're about in the middle of where it sounds like it's running best. Too far right or left and it'll be lean or rich and run like crap. Once you find the happy place for that, go back and check idle speed again.

After that's all happy, try revving it up slowly. If it falls on its face at any point, you might have to make a slight adjustment to the mixture screw one way or the other. Otherwise, you should be set.

You really only need a flathead screwdriver and a 7/32" socket to tune the things.

mix screws only affect the idle circuit. anything beyond idle and you are into metering rod territory for adjustment.

 

[nola mike]

mix screws only affect the idle circuit. anything beyond idle and you are into metering rod territory for adjustment.

Well, I didn't mess with the rods or jets when I rebuilt (just so I could eliminate them as variables if I had a problem). And I'll need to double check, but thought that the idle circuit was active for transition as well. There are for sure ports to supply fuel as the plates open...

 

[achris]

..., but thought that the idle circuit was active for transition as well.

It sort of is.

There are for sure ports to supply fuel as the plates open...

The are called 'progression holes'. And the air fuel mixture ratio through them is controlled by the idle mixture screws. Once air flow is fast enough the venturis take over, and then the fuel air ratio is completely controlled by the main jets and emulsion tubes.

What carb are you running? From memory an Edelbrock 1409, yes?

Chris...

 

[achris]

Back in the early 1980's I owned a 1976 Ford Escort (not unlike this...).



Being a young male, I decided the 1.6L engine just needed a 'bit of help'.
All the pollution control rubbish was disabled (left in place but the rubber tubes plugged with ball bearings), the low compression head was replaced with a high compression Heron head, the cam was changed to one from a GT Cortina, and the fuel system got a nice twin barrel Weber 32DGV, which had an 'idle jet' to control the fuel to the idle mixture screw. This jet also controlled the fuel to the progression holes, so if the jet was the wrong size you could get the idle right with the mixture screw, but the 'off idle' wouldn't be right... Anyway, this engine was also bored 60 thou, and I suspect the combination of all the mods left the idle jet way out of spec. The engine idled nicely, was great after about 2,000rpm, but that off idle was rubbish (way too lean), very difficult to drive (manual gearbox).

I found the local Weber agent at the time and went to buy idle jets. He wouldn't sell them. Insisted that I bring the car in and have it on the dyno and they'd select and fit the right jet, for half a week's pay!

Sod that for a bunch of soldiers! I had a few spare carbs, so pulled the idle jets out of them and set about 'self-tuning'. I'd bought a set of 'pin drills' (little baby drill bits from 80 thou all the way down to 13 thou) and one day set about incrementally drilling out an idle jet until I got it right.

Didn't take more than about an hour to get the right size, and after that, that car was very nice. Topped out at over 160km/hr (back in the day even the big 6s were struggling to make that), and towed my 15' fibreglass boat with ease.



Anyway, if you have the 1409, there isn't an idle jet on it, all your tuning is done by the main jets and the metering rods, springs and jets. Set the main jets for the right size at higher engine speeds, then set about finding the right metering rods to tune the lower speeds. I haven't looked at the fuel flow diagrams for the 1409, but I suspect the metering rods jets and springs will tune for 'off idle', combined with the mixture screw.

What I'd do is get the mains right and the metering for the mid-range, then set a nice idle. Then see which way the mixture needs to go for 'off idle' by bringing the revs up to about 1300 and seeing which way you need to adjust the idle screw to get a nice run at that speed. Obviously that messes up the idle, but the point is to work out which way the off idle needs to go. Then select a different metering rod (may need to change springs and even the jet) to get the same mid-range but move the off idle the way you need to go... Easy peasy.

Chris..........

 

[nola mike]

It sort of is.

The are called 'progression holes'. And the air fuel mixture ratio through them is controlled by the idle mixture screws. Once air flow is fast enough the venturis take over, and then the fuel air ratio is completely controlled by the main jets and emulsion tubes.

What carb are you running? From memory an Edelbrock 1409, yes?

Chris...

Yeah, 1409. Like I said, I used the same jet/spring/metering rod combo all last season. Suspected it was a bit fat, but no real issues. I specifically didn't change any of that just to limit the variables. But my understanding of the carb is how you described it--that is, the idle mixture does affect the transition. The fact that I'm running fine once the airflow gets going means that I either have a carb rebuild failure (plugged idle ports or progression ports) or simply an adjustment problem.

Also, I never know whether the stumble/hesitation/whatever is because I'm momentarily running too lean or too rich.

 

[achris]

Yeah, 1409. Like I said, I used the same jet/spring/metering rod combo all last season. Suspected it was a bit fat, but no real issues. I specifically didn't change any of that just to limit the variables. But my understanding of the carb is how you described it--that is, the idle mixture does affect the transition. The fact that I'm running fine once the airflow gets going means that I either have a carb rebuild failure (plugged idle ports or progression ports) or simply an adjustment problem.

Obstructed passages would lead to a lean condition.

Also, I never know whether the stumble/hesitation/whatever is because I'm momentarily running too lean or too rich.

Try richening the idle mixture 1/2 a turn. It'll make the idle slightly rich, but if it reduces or eliminates the stumble, you know it was too lean. Makes it worse, it was already too rich...

Easies.

Chris.....

 

[Rick Stephens]

At least the 1409 is relatively simple progression to tune. My guess though is still something partially plugged up since you already had it running good before the burial at sea. Idle circuit on the 1409 is mostly ineffective once you open the throttle. Immediately springs and rods are the main influence, sole purpose of which is to quickly increase fuel flow, something idle ports cannot do. If you have a hesitation immediately off idle, then you might look at the springs and linkages to the rods to see if there is any deposits or crud in there. Wouldn't take much to mess with the quick response of the rods to a drop in vacuum.

 

[nola mike]

At least the 1409 is relatively simple progression to tune. My guess though is still something partially plugged up since you already had it running good before the burial at sea. Idle circuit on the 1409 is mostly ineffective once you open the throttle. Immediately springs and rods are the main influence, sole purpose of which is to quickly increase fuel flow, something idle ports cannot do. If you have a hesitation immediately off idle, then you might look at the springs and linkages to the rods to see if there is any deposits or crud in there. Wouldn't take much to mess with the quick response of the rods to a drop in vacuum.

I don't think I'm into the venturis when this is happening. It's with the throttle barely cracked, and is worse when I try to increase throttle slowly. And if it wasn't clear, it isn't only on acceleration; that just makes it stall if I go slow. It's running like crap if I crack the throttle and try to idle 800-1500 or so rpm. Also part throttle response and steady part throttle running are fine. I specifically looked at (and cleaned) the rods, though they're easy enough to check. I'll spend some time on it next week.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Here's the text on the controlling idle system for low throttle opening positions:

Idle System: The Idle System delivers 100% of the idle fuel. It also meters fuel at off-idle throttle positions; a large percentage at just off of idle decreasing to a minor influence as the throttle is opened wider. The idle setting is critical both to a smooth idle at proper rpm and to a smooth transition to part-throttle operation.

Idle circuit is a combination of air ports and passageways and fuel ports and passageways. The system metering properly is highly dependent on float level as well as clean passageways. Is finicky that way.

 

[nola mike]

Alternator was under warranty, I opened it up to see if it was worth returning... Guessing they won't accept this.

 

[Rick Stephens]

A little WD40 and good to go

 

[flashback]

It might be worth a try if you got it over the counter, hope for a good hearted soul..

 

[nola mike]

It might be worth a try if you got it over the counter, hope for a good hearted soul..

Online, I'd have to pay for shipping... Not worth the risk.

A little WD40 and good to go

 

[nola mike]

Grr. Went to tune the carb today, and saw steam coming from exhaust. Overheated on muffs. I don't remember how old the impeller was on that drive, but I replace them every other year, so...
Water was flowing out relief ports though, actually seemed like normal flow. Pulled t-stat hose and it wasn't super enthusiastic, but I didn't have help I needed to keep from drenching the boat.
Took off the t-stat housing, verified stat opening.
Figured I'd split the drive. Pulled the plug and had milky oil
I'll order a new kit, check out my 3rd gear housing that I have laying around (damn, I've collected a lot of parts) and see if that looks any better.