boat planing in jon boats

[CNT]

First off, this is concerning flat-bottom-hull and v-hull jon boats, utilizing 15HP outboard. Because of 15HP, most would be starting at 14ft and up. Also, for this discussion, will look at one-man driven boat, meaning one person, sitting at the back using a tiller 15HP (and possible battery in back). Now, plane a boat is after takeoff and is fully driven at cruising speed, nothing about displacement or plowing mode.

Generally, at the back of v-hull boats are simply pretty flat, with little rounded edges. Flat-bottom-hull usually straight flat, with sharp cornered edges. Both transom are flat backed. Both have fin strips on bottom (is that correct terminology).

When I watch YouTube, I see boats on planning mode. To me, v-hull front section is completely off the water. Even when maneuver turns and back to straight, the v-hull still off the water. In a sense, v-hull boats can slap on waves. So, what does a v-hull do during planing?

I am trying to see what explanations are saying about v-hull handles rough water better and ability to cut through waves. Again, this is concerning ~14ft jon boats with 15HP, not yachts (meaning yachts' v-hull remains in water, even at cruising speeds). I didn't pay attention to larger bass boats on how they plane (I notice larger bass boats have v-hull covering more than half of whole bottom hull). We can bring modified hulls into this discussion.

Please correct me is I said anything wrong or misinterpreted anything in here. I am asking questions. Thank you.

 

[QBhoy]

Oh god...there is a fair bit to explain here my friend. Lazy answer and a long story short is that planing is basically when the hull is skimming on top of the water with little resistance.
v hulls will have lifting strakes or chines to help and will always have a flattened out and shallower form at the rear, compared to the bow. Some will have a flat running pad to sit on at high speed, on high performance hulls. But like I say. Long story short.

 

[roscoe]

There is much confusion with hull types, especially with smaller boats.

V hull designs actually refer to the hull shape at the rear or stern of the boat.
The angle, measured in degrees, is called "dead rise".

So, jon boats, are flat bottomed, bow to stern, rectangular shaped.
Other smaller boats will be wedge or v shaped at the bow, and could be
flat at the stern, or have a v at the stern.

To add to the confusion, some people refer to any small aluminum boat as a "jon " boat.

And some jon boats have a pointed wedge shaped bow.


How do they handle in the water at speed, on plane ?
Driving over 6" or higher waves in a Jon boat is like driving over rumble strips on the freeway, but worse.
The bottom of the hull slaps every wave.

A boat like an Alumacraft 16' LTD, has a tapered shape at the bow.
This taper is often erroneously referred to as a v hull.
The taper will kind of pierce the waves, breaking through them, somewhat smoothing the ride.

A true v hull will have a v shape at the stern. The bow will break through the waves, and the heavier v shaped stern will be forced down into the water, smoothing the ride considerably.
This smoothing of the ride is much more obvious with heavier fiberglass boats.

 

[CNT]

There is much confusion with hull types, especially with smaller boats.

Me too.

V hull designs actually refer to the hull shape at the rear or stern of the boat.
The angle, measured in degrees, is called "dead rise".

Where can I find that information? Wiki?

To add to the confusion, some people refer to any small aluminum boat as a "jon " boat.

Used to be called "row boats" too.

And some jon boats have a pointed wedge shaped bow.

I am referring to those boats in here, specifically how they plane differ to flat bottoms.

A boat like an Alumacraft 16' LTD, has a tapered shape at the bow.
This taper is often erroneously referred to as a v hull.
The taper will kind of pierce the waves, breaking through them, somewhat smoothing the ride.

A true v hull will have a v shape at the stern. The bow will break through the waves, and the heavier v shaped stern will be forced down into the water, smoothing the ride considerably.
This smoothing of the ride is much more obvious with heavier fiberglass boats.

So, v-hull means in stern part of the boat, not bow part of the boat?

Where can I read about what v-hull means?

In this thread, I am questioning if v-hull and flat-bottom boat plane the SAME, as both boat type have similar rear bottom. Again, in jon boat size, such as in 14'-16'.

In bigger boats, such as 16' and up, what we would call "aluminum fishing boats" (seating 3 or more people) and have higher HP rating, those are "heavier" and the front have weight, thus, the bow would be more in water. That I can see that v-hull does it's job (break through waves). I could be wrong here, they may plane the same (the bow is off the water while planing). I am just not studying those bigger boats category.

Am I not doing this right? Again, in v-hull (in bow part), what does the front v-hull do during planing? Unless I am not understanding what/where v-hull is?

 

[sphelps]

It cuts through any chop that may be there .. Maybe the correct term for that type hull would be semi-V ?
Maybe the johnboat style with the square front would actually plane out faster wth the extra weight that it probably has in the bow ...

 

[ahicks]

I'm thinking there are a lot fewer designs available when speaking of the 14-15' and smaller boats only. When you narrow that field down further to alum. only, the pickings get slimmer still.

There are V "entry" boats, whose design criteria is to cut through low chop more smoothly, without pounding or slapping the water like a flat entry (true jon boat) will. There are also "strakes" that run from front to rear. The shape, length, and location of these strakes can have quite an effect on how a boat rides, AND the amount of spray the occupants will see.

Flatt bottom at the transom gives these smaller (less than 15' say) more stability. A V profile at the back of a boat this size might make it feel like a canoe. Rounded sections where the bottom meet the sides may ride smoother than a more squared off designs, but the squared off design would be slightly more stable from a "tippy" standpoint and quicker to plane.

When talking a 15 hp motor on a 14-15' boat this size, you also need to consider how difficult the boat will be to get up on plane. The easiest design to plane will be flat, with possibly some strakes located in a manner to trap the water under the boat, providing max lift.

I'm NOT a fan of placing the entire load in/on the back of any boat. I think a more balanced approach will lead to quicker planing and a better ride, especially when talking about a boat like this boat. The gas tank and battery placed mid ship would be my first try, with further experimenting as required. -Al

 

[JimS123]

Yes for sure much confusion. For simplicity sake, let's just say there are only 3 types of aluminum boat hulls. Obviously, there are others but they are not common. I qualified the statement by saying aluminum, since a Jon boat is usually made that way.

First is the Jon boat. It has a flat bottom and a square bow. The width at the bow is slightly less than in the middle of the boat.

Alternately, there is the V-hull boat, and that has a pointy bow. There are 2 types. The smaller ones are called semi-vees, and the V of the bow (the stem) flattens out when it reaches the bottom. The bottom of the boat is flat at the transom. The second type is the Deep-V. Here the V goes all the way to the stern.

So, if you look at the bow of the boat you can determine whether is a Jon or a V. Look at the transom and you can see if its a Semi- or a Deep-V.

The art of "planing" means that the boat is skimming on top of the water rather than pushing the water ahead. It also means that roughly the front half of the hull is out of the water. Only the aft half contacts the water. Any Jon or V hull boat can plane if it has enough HP.

Jon boats ride rough in anything but calm seas. If there is fair wave action the boat will pound the crap out of you. A Semi-V will provide a much better ride and enable the use in bigger waters. A Deep-V rides the best of all.

The pic shows a perfect plane. Of course, this is a wooden boat (Semi-V), which offers optimum buoyancy, handling and ride with minimal HP.

 

[CNT]

Any Jon or V hull boat can plane if it has enough HP.

During the planing, all boats do the same thing, on calm waters.

When the waters get little more rougher/wave, then that's where the front/bow of the bottom starts to slam onto the water. Here is where the flat and V hull comes in. I see. What I was thinking was since I mostly boat on calm and little wave waters (rivers and small lakes), where it almost never get that waves. But, didn't think about going on bigger lakes or windy days, let alone Lake Michigan. It was obvious right in front of my nose.

Looking at YouTube (below), I see the v-hull do one thing, is to spread water out in circular form. In a sense, there is NO planing on rough (high waves) waters. That's what was my thinking. This answers my dumb question... planing is for calm waters, regardless hull types.

 

[ahicks]

Planing on calm water only (or maybe a slight stir) is a good plan for the 15 hp boat on topic here of course, but rougher water can be handled pretty easily with something a bit bigger. The bigger boat's bottom design is a big factor, but the mental attitude/degree of craziness can take even that a step further..... See off shore boat racing for some examples.

 

[roscoe]

Your video is not a good example of normal boating situations.

It is a video of an inlet, a very dangerous inlet, where outflowing water meets an incoming ocean tide.



Flat = jon boat

 

[Texasmark]

This is a Jon boat made to handle a 15 hp engine, flat bottom with a slow rise at the front (bow). Stable allowing lots of movement inside with minimal tipping. Gets on the water (planes) easily with minimum HP. Best suited for rivers and small waters...no waves, no big boat wakes....beat you to death.

https://www.loweboats.com/jon-boats/l1436-jon/

 

[Old Ironmaker]

In order to plane a real deal flat bottom rectangle Jon boat put a few cinder blocks up front. I nearly killed myself when I came around a point on a small lake and that boat caught a breath of wind and stood straight up.

 

[CNT]

In order to plane a real deal flat bottom rectangle Jon boat put a few cinder blocks up front. I nearly killed myself when I came around a point on a small lake and that boat caught a breath of wind and stood straight up.

I have done that, cement blocks, dead battery, sand bags, in my younger years using canoe and other boats for fishing. But now that I am learning about plane in boats, wouldn't that defeat the propose of planing a boat by adding weight in front to keep the hull in water (like plowing water?)? but, we didn't have high HP (we merely had a 2HP and some). Then again, wouldn't it be like adding "unnecessary" dead weight (possibly extend beyond yellow capacity label)?

I can understand jon boats being light enough for wind to lift the boat while going "fast" (I see those extreme high-speed boats flipping all over starting when the front is filled with wind pushing it up in YouTube). Some of you may know that I haven't bought a boat yet, let alone not even experience varies boats to try things.

I just bought a 15HP last summer (cart before the horse). I watch YouTube on people using specific HP (reviews, show offs, etc), I found that 15HP would be a good medium for me (for solo river fishing), in fact, it may be little too much. But, then I can use this on small lakes for something to do. I had a 4.5HP for a very short time, used it on small lake, it took me 20 minutes to reach HALF of the lake, enjoying myself watch speed boats passing me like houseflies. So, 15HP should make it up for me, just to get me from A to B in reasonable time. And, after learning that needing at least 9.9HP to maybe get a plane, I bought the 15HP.

 

[ahicks]

CNT, it's about what I mentioned ealrlier - weight distribution. If you get too much in back, w/too little in front, you can (will) have handling issues. Common sense will prevail. You'll see how easy this is when you get the boat in the water with it's normal load. It's just about arranging it in a way that makes sense. Nothing to worry about...

 

[JimS123]

I think most would agree that Jack boats ride poorer than even the shallowest V-hull.

I've seen guys throw a small Jon in the back of a pickup truck, so they didn't need a trailer. But, truth be told, I often did the same with a 14' V-hull. On a trip from lake to lake in the Adirondacks we even put a 14 footer on the roof of a 1963 Chevy Bel-Air.

So, my uneducated comment is.....why would anyone want a Jon instead of a Semi-V?

 

[CNT]

When I call stores around, I ask if they have a used row boat available for sale. they didn't know what a row boat is? They reply if I meant jon boat. I had to explain I want a 14' v-hull, then they ask, would that be 60HP? Some even direct me to fiberglass bass boats, again, I am looking for aluminum.​

To add to the confusion, some people refer to any small aluminum boat as a "jon " boat.

LINK (Lund website)
LINK (Lowe website)

In two links above, what you guys call these type of boats? Is there a name for these type of boat?

I tried find used in varies websites (including iboats.com), and of course, some of them are overpriced or cheap ones are damaged or missing benches, not to mention across the country. Even in these two links above, $2k-$3k for one bare boat? Even new jon boats are $1k, that's still awful high, isn't it?

When talking a 15 hp motor on a 14-15' boat this size, you also need to consider how difficult the boat will be to get up on plane.​

15HP may be a problem for planing? Well, yeah, if the boat is heavy, long, cement blocks, and/or with another person in front, is that what you're referring to? I am talking about 14' boat with 15HP with one passenger. 15HP should be plenty of thrust.

Now, little OT, would a 14' boat with a 15HP be maneuverable or a 15HP should be on a 16' instead of 14'? This is a question of "one person boat". Just asking.

Man, can't wait to use my 15HP on ANY boat this summer!

 

[CNT]

V hull designs actually refer to the hull shape at the rear or stern of the boat.
The angle, measured in degrees, is called "dead rise".

So, v-hull are define as the "V" at stern (looking at the rear of the transom, as in 2nd picture below) or at bow (looking at the front of the boat)?

Is "dead rise" define as in the first image below?

 

[JimS123]

Back in MY day, marinas were staffed by old guys that were in the bizness for many years and knew what they were talking about. Today, all too often its a bunch of kids that don't know a stem from a stern and only want to sell you the most expensive thing on the floor.

If a dealer doesn't know what a rowboat is, you need to find a different dealer.

As an example, when I bought my Whaler I was trading in an awesome Starcraft utility with an almost brand new 25. When I said 25, the kid dealer didn't want it because his clients wanted at least a 60.

The Lunds and Lowes above are very fine boats. Both are semi-V hulls and should keep a family very happy. My little tinny in my signature is actually 13'6", and with a 9.9 HP 2-stroke we plied many a waterway with a fat husband and wife and 2 pre-teens. And yes, the boat planed, but we never made any speed records.

A $1000 Jon boat is exactly what its worth, IMHO. Not suitable for any water that I boat in. My upgraded 14' Starcraft was $3200 without the motor or trailer. A basic 14' utility with no extras will cost almost $2000.

Any of the boats in your links should plane easily with a 15 and one person.

Good luck in your search.

 

[JimS123]

So, v-hull are define as the "V" at stern (looking at the rear of the transom, as in 2nd picture below) or at bow (looking at the front of the boat)?

Is "dead rise" define as in the first image below?


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[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cimg0.ibsrv.net\/gimg\/www.thehulltruth.com-vbulletin\/990x360\/24_degree_deadrise_angle_big_red_ugly_d514d829ffa31d8258e09a8ddd0155756bdd30ce.jpg"**[/IMG2]

Nonono. V-hull defines the bow. Deadrise defines the stern. If the deadrise is zero (flat bottom) its a semi- V-hull. If the deadrise has a number its a deep-V-hull.

 

[Texasmark]

Me too.


Where can I find that information? Wiki?


Used to be called "row boats" too.


I am referring to those boats in here, specifically how they plane differ to flat bottoms.


So, v-hull means in stern part of the boat, not bow part of the boat?

Where can I read about what v-hull means?

In this thread, I am questioning if v-hull and flat-bottom boat plane the SAME, as both boat type have similar rear bottom. Again, in jon boat size, such as in 14'-16'.

In bigger boats, such as 16' and up, what we would call "aluminum fishing boats" (seating 3 or more people) and have higher HP rating, those are "heavier" and the front have weight, thus, the bow would be more in water. That I can see that v-hull does it's job (break through waves). I could be wrong here, they may plane the same (the bow is off the water while planing). I am just not studying those bigger boats category.

Am I not doing this right? Again, in v-hull (in bow part), what does the front v-hull do during planing? Unless I am not understanding what/where v-hull is?

When the Bow is V'd and the stern is flat, it's called a Modified V. Case in point would be the Alumacraft series of boats built back in the '60's era. They had a V bow for piercing larger waves at slower speeds and at about ¼ the length of the hull the bottom flatteded out all the way to the stern. The ribs are called "Strakes" and on an aluminum boat they provide strength and on fiberglass "deep V" hulls provide lift....called "lifting strakes".....back to the Alumacraft 14' Modified V hull, the "Chine" (where the side meets the bottom) was "soft" since it was rounded. Flat bottom Jon boats have a "Hard Chine" since the side and bottom (of the hull) meet at a sharp angle.

Hard chines are easier to plane and more stable at rest, corner sharper when underway and turning, for a given "Beam" (width of the boat at widest point). The soft chine Alumacraft rode softer in the water and considering the way Alumacraft made their boats and the grade of aluminum, a soft chine was the only way to go back then.
-----------------------------
On planing a flat bottom Jon Boat like the link I posted, I once rented a 2060 (20 ft long x 60" beam.....huge sucker, like a barge) Jon and went fishing by myself with gear, 1976ish Mercury 7 ½ HP outboard and 4 ½ gallon (as I recall....smaller than the normal 6 gallon for smaller engines) portable gas tank. I had no problem punching out and planing that boat, running out at a good, satisfying clip. Course once I got out on the 35,000 acre lake with the normal windy conditions here in N. Tx., the thing beat me to death (flat bottom boats are NOT made for open water) and you couldn't tie up and fish as the boat would head into the wind (being tied by the bow only....only way to tie up) and it would ride wave "crest" (top) to crest constantly banging. Drove me (and the fish) NUTS!!!!!

Iterating what I previously said, your 15 would make a 1436 FLY.