Bill Of No Rights!

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DJ

Guest
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

plywoody,<br /><br />I respectfully disagree. I believe you underestimate people. The thing that you are missing is that that are no two identical people. Each individual has strengths and weaknesses. That's the beauty of humanity.<br /><br />Many in our government want to put us into neat little boxes. We're all supposed to be the same. That's called socialism. It has never worked, and never will. <br /><br />Again, I mention the beauty and diversity of humanity.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Skinny Water writes:<br /><br />According to Pragmatism, the truth or meaning of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences rather than in anything more metaphysical. Basically, it can be summarized by the phrase "whatever works, is likely true." Because reality changes, "whatever works" will also change - thus, "truth" must also change over time. This means that no one can claim to possess any final or ultimate truth. <br />Pragmatism became popular with American philosophers and even the American public because of its close association with modern natural and social sciences.<br /><br />Absolutely correct. government has no business at all in determing any "metaphysical truth" in my, or any other person's life. I can do that on my own. If I want to believe that little green people from mars are the people I worship, so be it. I can claim that as truth for me, but I cannot claim it as an absolute truth for you. As long as I follow the rules of society, what business is it of theirs whether I am correct or not? What government does have a role in is determining how best for society to funtion most beneficially for the governed. Times change, circumstances change, problems change over time. It is specifically why any sort of Idealogical approach to solving problems will not work. And specifically why the founding fathers wished to keep a separation between religion and government <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Beaux

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
390
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

It is policies like PLywoody is recommending on hiring that cause employers to FEAR hiring a minority employee because you simply can't fire/reprimand/expect as much from someone who EXPECTS that they are deserving of a job over someone else based solely on the color of their skin and their job is protected under federal laws. The NAACP/NOW/EEOC/etc have lobbyied for laws that have created more racism than they have stomped out in the last 5-10 yrs. The time of these minority special interest based organizations and entities has come and gone. Just look at the membership of the NAACP....not very impressive because all the ranting about injustice just doesn't hold water to most african americans who have been raised in america in the last 30 years. Anyone that looks to Johnny Cochran as a leader or Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.....come on ...give us all a break. <br /><br />oops, I said I wouldn't chime in anymore....Sorry, I am trying ;) :D :D
 

Bigfun

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
305
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Mellowyellow, Pt.1 I was born in this ****ry that fact makes me a native american. It's irrelevent if a immigrant can speak english when they arrive here. Whats important is if they make the effort and learn it. Americans/immigrants who refuse to learn english set themselves apart from our distinct english speaking culture. This only serves to divide us. Most words have factual meanings[native, immigrant]. To change the definition of words to suit whatever point your trying to make is wrong and will only fool the people tou refer to in point#2 Pt.2 I agree the public school system is horrible but it's not from lack of money which I assume you infer by leaving out the "rich" suburbs. The biggest problem with most schools, publi and private, is that a large percentage of children have parent who have let the schools take the responsibility of raising the kids. Lack of parental disipline, preschool[daycare] after school programs[daycare], sex ed. political correctness, non-judgementalism, morals etc. In school as in life if you really want to better yourself and work hard you will. You ask "what kind of citizens does this creat?" It creats people who look at the government for all the answers to whatever problem they see or creat. And thats the road this country has been traveling down for decades. Pt.3 Most all politicians are interested in getting re-elected, so what. We decide who comes who goes, thats one of the beuties of our Constitution. The status quo is changing and as long as we live under a representative republic it always will.I hear & read about many controversial subjects being proposed, debated, attacked, misrepresented,lied about, buried etc. The problem isnot "that they don't do anything at all" it's that they do. Iv'e seen a whole lot of changing in this country. Pt.4 Define rich, poor and middleclass? I wonder what I am. There are not mostly 2 types of jobs. There are thousands of types of jobs and if you don't want any of them you can creat your own. A parent can [and should] stay home with their child if they are willing to put that benifit to their child ahead of their wants. Pt.5 Bill Gates does not "deserve" to be rich he earned it. Who the **** are you to decide how much money Gates or anyone "needs". As for the 90%-5% term, so what. As long as we live in a free country you will always have people who are more successful at various things. If you were allowed to take that 90% of the money and give it to who or whatever, it whould be only a matter of time before the 5% have earned it back. As for "cheating" the tax system. These people do the same thing I do when I file, which is I try to keep as much of my money as I legally can. Whats wrong with me? If it wasn't for them greedy rich folks paying their "fair" share all of our taxes whould be more.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Plywoody, I think you are incorrect with your basic assumption of prejudice. What needs to change resides in the hearts and minds of the people, black and white, and you do the opposite with continued affirmative legislation. We see that the legislation of unfairness creates resentment, and devalues/negates achievement by the recipients of affirmative action, exactly opposite the desired effect to the hearts and minds. It also perpetuates the idea and reality of prejudice by blacks and whites against each other. I think we the people are ready to get up from the past injustices but the Deomcrats want to keep us there, thats how they get elected. <br /> <br />What we should all do, instead of legislation, is buy and read "Journey of Man" (referenced above by Mellow) which will be released as a book soon.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Plywoody,<br /><br />I cannot see the connection between the "so called" seperation of church and state and racism.<br /><br />By the way, the constitution says nothing about "seperation" That was a letter written by one of the founders and not incorporated in the document.<br /><br />The document states that that government shall not sanction a religion ie, forming a state religion. The only thing the government sanctions now is anti religion. Especially if it is Christianity.<br /><br />By the way, government projects "metaphysical truth" all the time via the laws that are passed.
 

trollhole

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
423
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

I am a true believer of Darwins theory of evolution. The stronger species will survive. Those who cheat the system the weaker will pay for their sins in one form or another. If we could get rid of all the wellfare moms and people who don't give a crap about our country but just ask "what are you going to give me for doing nothing" and "that's not fair I should get more". And the best one of all I just heard it the other day. Why should I get a job making 7 dollars an hour working my butt off when I can get paid by the government for doing nothing. I think we ought to send all those people as well as all our criminals up to north dakota and give them the whole state and let them fight it out.<br />And when the Canadians start complaining about all this terroism that is just acrose the boarder that poses a significant threat to their country we can just say we have inspectors in trying to find out what they are doing and that we think they need to finish the job before we act.<br />If we could do this just think of how nice our country would be. Plus it would give those crazy Canucks a taste of there own medicine for saying they disagree about attacking Iraq and we should give the inspectors more time. :D <br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Trollhole the Idiot :rolleyes: <br /><br />ARTICLE II:<br />You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be ... and like the rest of us, you need to simply deal with it.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

The injustice I see is the term "racism," which seems to primarily refer to white as being the racists even though blacks and hispanics have their own organizations that promote their race only.Further more the afirmative action program was set in motion by the federal goverment yet find me one situation that an afirmative action hiring is owned up to and made public information or available to prospective job candidates.It's law but it's also their dirty little secret that is swept under the rug.Is it an extension of the "don't ask,don't tell" policy?I don't know what it's like in your state but in Texas almost every human resource dept. within companies and goverment agencies that process and play a part in hiring procedures are manned with minorities as their directors.<br />Any entity or individual that speaks out in defense of the unfair treatment of whites is considered as bigoted and racist in the eyes of the liberal media.Go figure.The only one that they seem to portray in the media is the radical rantings of the KKK or connection to a "white supremisist"organization.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

The true equality of it all is that all human beings can be and frequently are racist. It's a biological fact based on group survival that is here because it served to help us survive in the past. All of us need to recognize that in ourselves. Some 20 years ago I debated with a black cabbie in Houston. I made the point that were the power and cultural rolls reversed, blacks would have enslaved whites. He was flabergasted at that, and could not accept that whites were not evil as a race beacause they had proven themselves to be racists. I pointed out that was a racist view in itself. I did not fault him in any way for his view because any race that endured what blacks did would surely see things the same way. Now however, 20 years later, it is time for everyone to get on board with the idea that racism is a human condition shared by all races. It's the only way forward because it is the reality.
 

NathanY

Commander
Joined
Mar 16, 2002
Messages
2,408
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

So we got everyone's point of view on politics. Now how bout we throw some RELIGION in the mix.<br /><br /> :D
 

mellowyellow

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

I agree, time to put this to bed. getting an itchy<br />trigger finger over here.... all I'll say to y'all<br />is that diversity is a great thing. being able to<br />rationally discuss things without getting defensive<br />is the beginning of negotiation.<br />I enjoyed the debate and all of the points made.<br />regards,<br />M.Y.
 
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