Bill Of No Rights!

SCO

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Health care is a basic necessity from the individuals perspective, but not a right. I have no expectation that any government owes that to me, as was the culture I grew up with, or anyone else though obviously the rules are being incrementally rewritten. Charity is a different matter and is not owed or claimed as a right. The healthy society's driving force is incentive. If you feed a Lion every day it won't hunt. If you provide people a basic standard of living, then people don't provide it for themselves. The examples for incentive and lack of incentive are Hong Kong and the USSR. The bloodletting of the middle class for the unproductive and selfrighteous segment of the society is becoming a crisis.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Well done Breaux, my story is similar to yours.<br /><br />plywoody says:<br />"And I am aware that conservatives, when at a loss for real data and real arguments, resort to throwing around the "liberal" label as if that made any sense whatsoever in any sort of argument." <br /><br />Actually it's from the pages of **** Morris (Clinton's political advisor), where you muddy the waters of truth, accuse the opposition of what you're actually guilty of. Divide and separate people and ALWAYS play the race card .......or children.<br /><br />plywoody says:<br />"Clinton showed this to some degree with the welfare reform act, and the unprecedented low unemployment rate." <br /><br />Another liberal debate trick is to repeat rhetoric as fact. I've called you on the Clinton/ Bush/ President's influence on the economy before.<br />You continue to use rhetoric as fact.<br /><br />Even though President Clinton promised to "end welfare as we know it" in his 1992 Presidential campaign, the national debate over welfare reform did not take shape until 1994, when the original "Personal Responsibility Act" was introduced in the House of Representatives as part of the Republican "Contract With America." <br /> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c104:h.r.4: <br /><br />Relevant bill you refer to.<br /> http://www.puaf.umd.edu/courses/puaf650/handouts-Responsibility-Welfare Reform Act.htm <br /><br />plywoody says:<br />"To give a black person a few points in the admission process in the name of diversity is just about the least this country can do. We should embrace it, and not sound like it is the end of the world as we know it!" <br /><br />Straight from the horses mouth, so to speak plywoody. Dust off the old Constitution and get another dose of what you should be embracing.<br /><br />"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Martin Luther King<br /> http://history1900s.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html <br /><br />plywoody says:<br />"I guess I prefer to work and deal in the real world, and not some fantasy world of what we wish would be."<br /><br />I'm sensing some more hypocrisy.<br /><br />plywoody says:<br />"I consider myself a pragmatist, in that I prefer to take a problem as it exists in the real world, analyze it, identify what precisely the problem is, and attempt to solve it in any realistic way possible. Unfortunately, the simple answers rarely work." <br /><br />Nothing more simple then the TRUTH, or the CONSTITUTION, or the COMMANDMENTS, or the GOLDEN RULE. If you pragmatists would quit trying to reinvent, manipulate or change the truth the simple things WOULD work.<br /><br /> http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_pragmatism.htm?iam=savvy&terms=Pragmatist <br />According to Pragmatism, the truth or meaning of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences rather than in anything more metaphysical. Basically, it can be summarized by the phrase "whatever works, is likely true." Because reality changes, "whatever works" will also change - thus, "truth" must also change over time. This means that no one can claim to possess any final or ultimate truth. <br />Pragmatism became popular with American philosophers and even the American public because of its close association with modern natural and social sciences.
 

FLATHEAD

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Plywoody,<br /> <br /> My well qualified son got bumbed out of the top ten percent on the state police employment test because minoritys got extra points added to thier scores. Please explain to me why in your words." We should embrace this and this is the least we can do"? <br /><br />Affirmative action served its porpose many years ago but its now time for it to go. <br /><br />------------<br />Flathead
 

rudeafrican

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 29, 2002
Messages
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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Flathead, I agree with your sentiments on affirmative action. It seems to be a politically correct way to ensure that people who cannot make it on their own merit, still get to the top. It's like running the 100 metre sprint at the Olympics and giving slower athletes a 20 metre head start.<br /><br />Here in South Africa we also have affirmative action but it works in reverse to what you are used to. Here by us it is in favor of the majority, not the minorities. There is virtually no chance of a white male getting a good job as all jobs advertised are affirmative action posts.<br />Makes one wish for the stone age where it was a case of survival of the fittest.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

well we have the left and right well represented here.<br />I agree with points on both sides of these issues..<br />sounds like a democrat/republican debate with both<br />sides standing firmly and not willing to meet at<br />some middle ground. this is why it is so hard to<br />acomplish change in today's society. polarization!<br /><br />a few points I feel are worth metioning....<br /><br />1) unless you are a native american, you too are<br />an immigrant to this country. my great/great<br />grandparents did not speak english when they<br />arrived in this country and neither did yours.<br /><br />2) the public education system in this country is <br />horrible especially in the schools who really need<br />it. (inner city/poor/farm rural)even if you really<br />wanted to better yourself and work hard in school,<br />the teacher has to cater the slowest student. they<br />no longer hold kids back, and they are pushed through<br />the system. what kind of citizens does this create? <br />the average american reads at 8th grade level.<br /><br />3) career politicians are mostly interested in being<br />re-elected. this prevents them from doing anything<br />that could really change the status quo. they will<br />not even approach a subject that is in the least<br />bit controversial because they will not be making<br />EVERYBODY happy. look at this post. lot's of folks<br />with different opinions. so they don't do anything<br />at all. nothing ever changes that way.<br /><br />4)the gap between the rich and the poor is growing<br />at an alarming rate. the middle class is quickly<br />dissapearing. not like when my dad was young. there<br />were several good paying factory jobs that allowed<br />one to support a family, buy a house,car etc.<br />mom didn't need to work. she stayed home and watched<br />the fort. today there are mostly 2 types of jobs.<br />low or minimum wage and highly skilled high pay.<br />2 parents making $8.00/hr will not have nearly<br />the standard of living my dad could provide 30<br />years ago. <br /><br />5) Bill Gates deserves to be rich beyond belief,<br />but nobody needs billions of personal income. if<br />you were given $200K a day to blow, that comes out<br />to about $7Million/yr. that should be enough.<br />90% of the wealth in this country is in the hands<br />of 5% of the people. these people can afford very<br />high price accountants who teach them how to cheat<br />the tax system with off-shore corporations, non<br />profit organizations etc. they don't pay there fair<br />share, and they should. (we REALLY need them to)<br /><br />I will not bore you with what I think are the best<br />solutions... you decide for yourself.<br /><br />"If you want to change your results, you have to<br />change your meathods"<br />Zig Ziggler<br />regards,<br />M.Y.<br /><br />PS. plywood, you should be very proud of your daughter!
 

Scoop

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Mellow Yellow, "Native Americans" are also not native, they are immigrants. Their ancestors just immigrated at least 12,700 years before we did. There is current evidence that there were immigrants in Mexico 12,700 year before present.<br /><br />Sorry to be a geek.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

All I know is that I might not be native american, but I am sure a NATIVE WHITE BOY :D
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Scoop you geek.. LOL (just kidding)<br />acording to discovery channel, we ALL immigrated<br />from Africa origionally.<br />geek #2
 

mattttt25

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

life just isn't fair. sums up this discussion pretty well.
 

SCO

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Point 4 Mellow,<br /><br />You avoided pointing out a method to solve this problem, "taxing the rich" in many's view, but the real problem is the burden that all *remaining* productive citizens are under to support our massive government. The middle class is not able to move ahead, and a gap between the rich and middle class is developing. Reduce government, taxes, welfare incentives, and stop with the liberal "you are a victim" mantra. Many of us became colorblind many years ago. The ones that aren't, the current racists, want affirmative action and division (Harry Belafonte and Mandella come to mind). Comments about conservative whites are racist. Said conservatives don't whine about it, just pointing out the hypocrisy.<br /><br />Also, on 5, You focus on GB Gates' money. Why. He has contributed to the general wealth of the economy as a whole more than all the iboats members combined...to a factor of 100. It is not true that he has taken a certain percentage of the available finite resources and hoarded it for himself. He generated it. We all benefit. Its his . Thank you Bill Gates.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

hi SCO, since you asked....<br />I am a firm believer in some sort of "consumtion"<br />tax for everyone. no returns, no paperwork, no loopholes.<br />I also feel that every dollar I send to Fed. gov't<br />comes back as pennies in aid for any program.<br />wish all my taxes went directly to my local gov't<br />and we could cut out the middleman.<br />and you?<br />M.Y.
 

SCO

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

I'm glad to hear that Mellow. I too am for a consumption tax from the perspective that everyone participates . It's a good first step. The local gov'mnts are getting a lot of money now a days. I like some aspects of it. At least say Californias policies wont affect me as badly and a person could move away form the bad govrnmts (or towards it if youre homeless) .I think the federal government is necessary for the military, Space, and infrastructure. 90% of what the democrats constantly harp on should be scrapped. Sorry about the edits. You might try a refresh.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

not surprised we agree SCO. <br />step 3 makes this difficult IMHO.
 

SCO

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Yes...the dreaded step 3. Thats where integrity counts. The job has to be bigger than the person. I have absolutely no trust in anything that the democrats say or do. Just maybe we the people are getting so fed up that we are going to start selecting our representatives based on their integrity. The days of Monicagate are out.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

on to #3)<br />TERM LIMITS!!!!!!<br />get rid of career politicians.<br />finance reform might get rid of special interests<br />too....
 
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DJ

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Mentioned above by mellowyellow was the rift growing between the wealthy and poor. Also, mentioned was the "workingmans" ability to support a family.<br /><br />What has changed? Answer: Tax rates. The mean income tax rate in 1964 was 4%. It is now over 30%+. That's just Federal!<br /><br />There are two reasons for two income families.<br /><br />1. People want to try to get ahead. Most would leave one parent at home if it was reasonably affordable.<br /><br />2. 30%+ of ones income being taken makes it almost necessary for some. It's called survival-in many cases.<br /><br />The only fixes are a TRUE consumption tax or a true flat tax. No exemptions, no loopholes. Everyone pays the same percentage of their income.<br /><br />Bill Gates will pay millions, the average Joe will pay a few thousand. Sounds fair to me. <br /><br />Talk about the long arm of the Government. Here in Arizona, they have just announced, due to State cutbacks, that tax refunds will average at least an eighteen week (4 1/2 months) turnaround. That's an extension of a free loan to the state government. <br /><br />There is not a thing anyone can do about it. Maybe I'll wait eighteen weeks to pay what I owe. I'll just tell them that I've had to cut back too. ;) <br /><br />I may be writing back to y'all from jail. :eek:
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

good point DJ. they're gonna give you interest on<br />the money for that time right? and what kind of<br />penalty you gonna charge them?
 

plywoody

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Aug 11, 2002
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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Because we need diversity in the police force.<br /><br />This is a color-blind society? That's a laugh.<br /><br />Imagine yourself as an employer, in the hiring process and sitting across from you are two absolutely identical candidates with equal qualifications. One is white, one is black. How often would the black candidate being chosen by the white employer in this scenario? I would suggest virtually never, unless there is a specific need for a black employee, like an unserviced black customer base, or a PR purpose of some sort.<br /><br />It has always been, and probably always be more important who you know, or who you are related to, and how you look, rather than what you know. It is the way the world works. It is human nature to go with the familiar rather than the unfamiliar. To think the world otherwise is naive.
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: Bill Of No Rights!

mellowyellow,<br /><br /> :D :D :D :D Interest. You're kidding right??<br /><br />They'll charge interest on me allright. Should I decide to pull that stunt. It's called jail.<br /><br />It only works-one way! :(
 

SCO

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Re: Bill Of No Rights!

Sorry, but I need to make one more point. The rich now pay the vast majority of the federal revenues. Thats a catch 22 in itself as the more they shoulder the burden, the more rationalle the Democrats have for tax and spend. It is getting worse and worse for everybody. Fact is all taxpayers are burdened by excessive tax as a percentage of what the taxpayer makes. Get off the peoples backs government. Reality check, I'm starting to get rabid here.
 
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