Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

NYMINUTE

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Has this wealthy "Genius" gone mad?<br />WASHINGTON (AP) -- Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates urged the Bush administration and lawmakers Wednesday to abolish immigration limits on foreign engineers who can be hired by U.S. companies, a sensitive subject among American technology workers watching their own jobs increasingly move overseas.<br /><br />During an infrequent visit to lobby personally for changes in federal policy, the world's richest executive said the government should eliminate the limit of 65,000 for overseas workers who can be hired each year by American firms under specialty "H1-B" visas aimed at drawing engineers, scientists, architects and doctors to the United States.<br /><br />"The whole idea of the H1-B visa thing is, don't let too many smart people come into the country," Gates said during an invitation-only panel discussion at the Library of Congress. "The thing basically doesn't make sense."<br /><br />Responding to a question about policy changes Gates would make if he were king, Gates said he "probably will get myself in trouble on this one." He endorsed more intensive study of nuclear power, improvements to U.S. schools and higher research spending by government.<br /><br />"I'd certainly get rid of the H1-B visa cap," Gates added. "That's one of the easiest decisions."<br /><br />Gates and other leading technology executives have pressed Congress aggressively to let them hire more foreign employees by raising visa limits, but Gates hasn't previously campaigned to abolish the immigration law entirely. Technology executives have argued they are unable to find qualified American workers, a contention disputed by U.S. labor groups and unemployed computer engineers.<br /><br />"Anybody who's got good computer science training, they are not out there unemployed," Gates said. "We're just not seeing an available labor pool."<br /><br />The Commerce Department undersecretary for technology, Phil Bond, cautioned Gates during his talk that unemployment among U.S. computer engineers regularly exceeds unemployment in other industries. "The politics of that are real," Bond said. Government figures showed 5.7 percent of information technology employees were out of work last year versus 5.5 percent of all workers.<br /><br />The debate over U.S. technology companies hiring more foreigners occurs in the wake of the 2001 terrorism crackdown on immigration and amid increasing concerns about the theft of U.S. corporate secrets. The Bush administration has set up a counterintelligence office and published a first-ever strategy for preventing espionage against U.S. companies and the government.<br /><br />"We still have to focus on border security," Rep. David Dreier, R-California, told Gates at his talk. "We can't be so naive as to believe there is not a very serious border security problem with which we have to contend."<br /><br />Some labor groups criticized Gates' remarks.<br /><br />"It's increasingly difficult for U.S.-based programmers to find work," said Marcus Courtney, organizer of the Seattle-based Washington Alliance of Technology Workers. "There is no support in the American public for completely abolishing the H1-B visa program and allowing companies to import foreign labor for these high-paying jobs."<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 

eeboater

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Its interesting... He is asking Pres. Bush to eliminate immigration limits to the USA for engineers. At least he isn't trying to ship the job off to another country, rather, he wants to bring the residents of the other country to ours. <br /><br />Not sure how to take that. First, it counteracts the libs idea that all our jobs are going overseas. But also it "potentially" is taking away jobs here in our country. BUT, if someone in the industry is hacked off about it, get better at what you do and knock some of them foreigners off their perch.<br /><br />Sean
 

NYMINUTE

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

65000 foreigners X 2.5 (family)= 162500 people of which 130000 will take jobs in this country. In 2 years the remaining extended families will venture here and take additional jobs. Mmmmmm, where will the American workers get jobs? Yes we need to be getting real good at what we do, but that does not insure employment. At the other end of the spectrum we have illegals taking the low end jobs, that some of us might just need if Bill Gates is successful. Sorry... this is insane.
 

JB

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Hmmmm. Not the first gazillionaire to come up with naive ideas of how to save the world.<br /><br />Read up on Henry Ford's nutcase ideas.
 

Limited-Time

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Every thing NYMINUTE stated plus the fact immigrant engineers just out of school are generally willing to work for less money just for the opportunity to immigrate to the US. All adds to the loss of high paying jobs for good old "Born in the USA" type citizens............. By the way do you want fries and a shake with that burger?...or thank you for shopping Wal-Mart, plaese come again... Sorry, I figure it's never to early to plan for the furture. Err, a, did I type that last part out loud???
 

62_Kiwi

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Gates must be a smart cookie - he recently hired a Kiwi as his Chief Financial Officer :D <br /><br /> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10122500 <br /><br />Chris Liddell comes from Matamata - a rural town south of Auckland (where my mother's side of the family comes from) - known for it's stud farms, producing high quality races horses (and corporate CFOs ;) ).<br /><br />Microsoft tends to hire high-calibre people - which I think is an important part of their success formula. I reckon the same principle applies to a country. More smart people = more success, wealth etc.<br /><br />
<br />Microsoft has a market capitalisation of about US$280 billion (NZ$384 billion) - swamping the value of New Zealand’s economy which, measured by gross domestic product, is about NZ$115 billion. <br />
...gasp! :eek:
 

NYMINUTE

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Originally posted by 62_Kiwi:<br /><br /><br />Microsoft tends to hire high-calibre people - which I think is an important part of their success formula. I reckon the same principle applies to a country. More smart people = more success, wealth etc.<br /> <br /><br />The current economical situation here doesn't support the theroy. At least the smart people part. The smarter people avoid political office.
 

PW2

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Apparently Mr Gates does not share the the right's irrational fear of immigration.<br /><br />Gates has long been saying in numerous speeches around the country that the current education system simply is not produing the number, or the quality of potential employees his company requires. I have been personally been aquainted with the recruiting process at Microsoft, and to suggest that they are looking to hire engineers willing to work cheaper is simply silly. They are looking for the best possible.<br /><br />Tom Friedman has a new book out, called "The world is flat" that suggests that it is no longer enough to rely on the accident of birth that an American born child is guaranteed a better paying job than a foreign born child. Advanced communications is making the world flat, from an opportunity standpoint, and offering comparable opportunities, based on merit and ability, to any student from any nationality.<br /><br />We ought to be thankful that Gates wants to locate the jobs in the USA, when clearly that is not his only option.<br /><br />And my hunch is that Gates knows better what his company needs than a bunch of right wing paranoid wackos, anyway. Perhaps someone should listen to him.
 

NYMINUTE

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> Apparently Mr Gates does not share the the right's irrational fear of immigration.<br /><br />Gates has long been saying in numerous speeches around the country that the current education system simply is not produing the number, or the quality of potential employees his company requires. I have been personally been aquainted with the recruiting process at Microsoft, and to suggest that they are looking to hire engineers willing to work cheaper is simply silly. They are looking for the best possible.<br /><br />Tom Friedman has a new book out, called "The world is flat" that suggests that it is no longer enough to rely on the accident of birth that an American born child is guaranteed a better paying job than a foreign born child. Advanced communications is making the world flat, from an opportunity standpoint, and offering comparable opportunities, based on merit and ability, to any student from any nationality.<br /><br />We ought to be thankful that Gates wants to locate the jobs in the USA, when clearly that is not his only option.<br /><br />And my hunch is that Gates knows better what his company needs than a bunch of right wing paranoid wackos, anyway. Perhaps someone should listen to him.
When one of his imported personnel brother in law takes your job, and you are forced in to a lower paying beneath your skill level job, I would enjoy your "Giving Thanks" to Bill Gates and those who feel it is correct to eliminate the American people from their craft. <br /><br />Those needed to be Thanked are the countless men and women who have lost their live's protecting our freedom that the rich and influential who are focused on greater personal wealth are slowly taking away.
 

PW2

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

And losing those jobs to some foreign company that hires better engineers and makes a superior product to Bill Gates' company is going to help? How?<br /><br />It is a competitive world, and we'd better be more concerned with putting out a competitive product than the birthplace of the person who he can hire.
 
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DJ

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

I agree with PW2, except the name calling part.
 

rogerwa

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

I'm not sure when this became a 'right wing wacko' issue, BUT if we import the best technical minds, our country will be able to retain its technical edge. I believe that is what happened after WWII when we accelerated our technical ability. It was our own talent, the GI bill, and smart people from other countries.<br /><br />I don't want someone to take my job, but that is my responsibilty, not Bill Gates'.
 

Wingnutt

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

It's not about bringing in smart people, it's all about paying lower wages. Why pay a good US programer a proper wage, when you can hire a non-American for less than half of the wage while continuing to raise the price of your product bu using the flimsy excuse of inreasing laobr costs.<br /><br />Pardon my cynicysm, but it's well earned.
 

dogsdad

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

I agree that it is really about forcing wages down. It is happening in other technical fields too...<br /><br />So, let's say we allow business to have what it wants. Bill Gates gets what he wants, which is really cheaper labor. Let's say he gets to cut the salaries of his engineering staff in half. Anyone think he would sell an OS at half the price he gets now, or cut prices by even a few percent?<br /><br />I think the answer is not only "no," but "HELL NO!"
 
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DJ

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

I wrote in response to PW2.<br /><br /><br />
I agree with PW2, except the name calling part.
PW2, <br /><br />I'm calling you out.
 

12Footer

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

One thing I have learned lately, werking in a very upscale gated community...<br /><br />Having any common sense or brainwave activity are not prerequisite to having more money than you can spend.
 
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DJ

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

12'r,<br /><br />I live in one of those communities.<br /><br />I'm an idiot?<br /><br />I don't think so. Just checking.<br /><br />Yes, it's keeping me from my dream project(s).<br /><br />But, I respect my neighbors, in this community, they (and I) paid big $$$ to not have "projects" all over the front lawn.<br /><br />My CHOICE, I'll live with it.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

DJ,<br />That explains alot of your opinions posted here.<br />12'er did not say everyone in those gated communities were stupid. He didn't say most were, he simply stated that he learned that certain characteristics were not prerequisite. I have encountered the same thing. I am glad that you admitted that you made you choice and that you have to suffer somewhat for it.<br /><br />As for the thread, do not for one minute think that Mr Gates would fight to bring in immegrant workers so he could pay more for the skills they possess. He is to be applauded for keeping jobs here in America, but have you called Microshaft's tech assist line lately? Have you gotten anyone who you could understand? I have called, four times in the last month, and only once, after being transferred three times did I get anyone sounding like they were speaking English.<br />I am not a liberal, but don't try to sell me the sob-story that there aren't any qualified IT engineers here in America. If there aren't, take some responsibility, pay them a little less and TRAIN them to your purposes. Remeber On-The-Job-Training? Nowadays nobody wants to provide OJT. But they won't hire you because you aren't qualified enough. I'm not saying hire a first year college student as a nuclear physicist, but provide some training, in the direction you want them to work.<br /><br />And if, by some miracle, Mr Gates is correct and we don't have properly educated people to fill htese positions, that goes back to the governments failure to provide adequate education in the K-12 schools. And I don't want any right-wing crying about the "entitlement" attitude. Suck it up. Education is important for the survival of any great nation. And our education system sucks. Not our teachers, our education system.<br /><br />Just my nightly rant. Thank you everyone for tolerating me.
 

rudeafrican

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

Wingnut wrote" It's not about bringing in smart people, it's all about paying lower wages. Why pay a good US programer a proper wage, when you can hire a non-American for less than half of the wage " <br /><br />That is actually a falicy (sp?) .I'm in the process of immigrating to the US and believe me, I've done extensive research on this subject.<br /><br /><br />The H1-b visa Gates refers to is a temporary workers visa that expires after 3 years and the worker has to return home. The immigrant visa (EB3) allows the worker to live and work in the US and eventually become a US citizen.<br /><br />This is an extract from the DOL website:<br />" The requirement to pay prevailing wages, as a minimum, is true of virtually all employment based visa programs - permanent and temporary. However, in certain programs, such as H-1B (temporary specialty occupations), the employer is required to pay the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid by the employer to workers with similar skills and qualifications, whichever is higher "<br /><br /> For me to get a "Foreign Workers Visa", I need a labor certification by your department of labor. This is only issued if the company wanting to employ me can prove to them that a), they have done extensive US recruitment and cannot find a suitable US citizen to do the job and b) that they will not pay me less than the state average for that job as determined by the department of labor. This is specifically to ensure that foreign workers are not brought in to undercut US workers' salary and to protect US workers' rights and jobs.<br /><br />Anybody that wants to do further research on the laws governing this go to this government site:<br /> Immigrant wages <br /><br /><br />This process takes up to 2 years for each and every immigrant.
 
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DJ

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Re: Bill Gates! Are you Whacked?

David L. Moore wrote;<br /><br />
And if, by some miracle, Mr Gates is correct and we don't have properly educated people to fill htese positions, that goes back to the governments failure to provide adequate education in the K-12 schools. And I don't want any right-wing crying about the "entitlement" attitude. Suck it up. Education is important for the survival of any great nation. And our education system sucks. Not our teachers, our education system.<br />
For this we agree.<br /><br />However, it is not entrely the systems fault, although I agree it is broken.<br /><br />I place allot of the fault on the American broken home.
 
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