BBC build- Don't tell the Admiral

Scott Danforth

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All you need is some shiplap siding on those walls, with maybe an old wagon wheel as a decoration, and you'd look just like you were on Fixer Uppers!

you nailed the show on the head that the wife watches.....

im using this as psychology. she doesnt understand why I want to buy old cars and trucks and rehab them or make custom vehicles or boat mods.....and she does this, saying she can get used furniture cheap and with a little work have something that is nicer than what she can buy for 5 times the cost...... im going to spring it to her gently..... LOL
 

Bondo

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Do I continue with what I have or buy the existing motor? part of me really wants to finish the 496 build, however a 509 would be drop and go. Admiral wants to hit me over the head with a cast-iron skillet because she just wants the boat finished.

Ayuh,.... Both,...... Drop in the runnin' motor, 'n the Admiral is Happy,....

Finish yer motor, swap 'em out, 'n sell the drop-in, hopefully at a profit,.....

Great job on the table,....
 

Scott Danforth

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Thanks Bondo.

working with the guy with the 509, he has a buddy looking for a 454 to rebuild..... may have a plan coming together

was out of town last two days working on a boat in Marina Del Rey....

just a little wee one
 

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Scott Danforth

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Status update on the project.

Sold the stock L29 heads. 2.06 / 1.72 valves and 100cc chambers would have made a nice torqey 454 with a lot of throttle response.
Picked up a set of Merlin 269CC heads, 119cc chambers, 2.3 Stainless intake / 1.88 Inconel exhaust valves for just a few $ more

https://www.theengineshop.com/produc...ron-heads.html

http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/bpo/5872782224.html

Picked up a complete ZZ502 rotating assembly. was in a Chevelle for past 9 years. spent 90% of its time in a trailer covered up. under 5000 miles on the motor. guy decided to build a 540 blower motor for his show car.

for $350 I picked up a crank, rods, pistons, flex plate and damper, stock ZZ502 cam and a custom grind street cam along with the short water pump.

1124160703_zpswaizjitb.jpg 1124160703a_zpsnu9zilnc.jpg


I mic'd the crank, rods, pistons, etc. all perfect. not a scuff or anything on the pistons.

Had a line on a low hour pair of Gen 6 502 short blocks. made a deal with the guy for one as he was upgrading to twin 613's. Then on way to pic one up, I get a text that he sold them.

That brings me to a current dilemma.....

The guy I got the heads from has a Gen V 502 stock bore block that I can get dirt cheap. the roller cam and lifters I have wont work (cam would with retro lifters).

so I have one of the 4 choices:
  • Buy the Gen V block, dingle-berry the cylinders drop in the stock ZZ502 rotating assembly, sell the Gen VI lifters, pushrods, etc and build a mild, 9.2 CR 502. Estimated 490 prop HP with 89 octane ~ cost out of pocket ~ ~800 (retro rollers, etc)
  • Stay on the lookout for a stock Gen VI block, dingle-berry the cylinders, drop in the stock ZZ502 rotating assembly, build a mild 9.2 CR 502. Estimated 490prop HP with 89 octane ~ cost out of pocket ~$700 (block)
  • Buy the 509 short block with the Eagle crank ~ cost out of pocket ~ $2800 (short block)
  • Build my 454 into a 468, use the crank and rods from the ZZ502, sell the 502 pistons, bore notch the block and build a mild 9.5 CR 468. Estimated 460 prop HP with 89 octane ~ cost out of pocket ~ $900 (Pistons, bore/hone and balance). Basically a ZZ454 mimic http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ck-zz-454.html

November 24th, 2016 Budget review update to the September post

Sold New L29 heads $500 ? so $1125 ahead
Cam, Lifters, rockers, etc. - $300 (less $175 for selling a friends lightning headers on CL) - $125 or $1000 ahead
Merlin 269cc heads $700 or $300 ahead
ZZ502 rotating assembly, short water pump $350 or $50 out of pocket


Things to work out

502 bare Gen V block ~$500
502 Gen VI block ~$700
509 Gen VI short block $2800

Things to still get (awaiting on above)

New flywheel - $80 GM 14096987 or machine a spacer mass and use the flex plate I have
new starter -$70
new alternator -$80
timing chain set -$125
Mehling Oilpump -$135
Felpro gaskets -$125

Fasteners (not sure I would need ARP with a mild build or simply use the stock GM)
ARP head studs -$223
ARP main studs (for windage tray) -$170
ARP rod bolts -$156

Head bolts, main bolts, etc would be about $150

Right now the easiest is the Gen V block, however taking a step back with the lifters, and the head cooling water passage issues

the second easiest is to build the Gen VI 468

now to start calculating dynamic CR to see which motor works best for reversion
 
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alldodge

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Don't see an option to use the 502 heads on the 454, you should be able to get it up around 500HP
 

Scott Danforth

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stock 502 heads are nothing speccial. they are 088 rectangular port heads (Casting 140974088) with 2.19 intake and 1.88 exhause and the Merlin's out-flow them unless the 088 heads have been seriously reworked. Also the rectangular ports drop port velocity to where idle and mid-range power drops on its face where the large ovals keep the port velocity up for more mid-range torque

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-1211-rectangle-vs-oval-port-big-block-test/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/sucp-1208-big-block-heads-shootout-the-o-vs-r/

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/engine/ultimate-guide-to-budget-bbc-cylinder-heads-under-2000/

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148-0305-oval-port-heads/

I used the number from the 088 heads in the merlin table for 0.050, lift as neither Bill Mitchel or the articles listed the flow rate below 0.100" lift

Flow Data: CFM @ 28-ins
Stock 088
LiftInEx
0.0503227
0.1007756
0.200144112
0.300206142
0.400245166
0.500289188
0.600320192
0.700334197

Flow Data: CFM @ 28-ins
Stock Merlin 269cc
LiftInEx
0.0503227
0.1007565
0.200144121
0.300213165
0.400275202
0.500323262
0.600352262
0.700355274
 

Scott Danforth

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Build is finalizing. Due to unknown limitations of the VP drive, going to stick with 4" stroke and build a 468. Machine shop thinks I will blow up the drive because he sees bravos blowing up on built motors.

Good thing I've got spare drive parts.

I have gone over about 20 or so documented builds of marine 468 motors on OSO, hotboat, performance boat, etc, and most are 87 octane builds, a few 89 octane builds, and a few 93 octane builds. All above 490hp

Goal of 450hp at the prop will be easy, and may be on 87 octane fuel at 34 degrees

Gen VI block will be sonic tested to see if will be bored to 4.320 or 4.350.
The block will be decked to have the slugs 0.005" down.
The bores will be notched to unshroud the valves
Head gasket will be a 0.039" set of felpros
Quench distance will be 0.044"
Forged 18cc domed pistons (either ICON or SRP)
Crank and rods are GMPP forged units. Rods are "dimple" with 7/16" bolts
Oil pump is a Mehing high volume unit that I will weld the pickup
Heads are Bill Mitchel Merlin 269cc large ovals that I will be deflashing the combustion chambers and blending the bowls. The exhaust ports will be polished.
Intake is an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap that will be port matched to the heads
Carb will be the Holley that I have (715cfm) sitting on a 1" spacer
Cam choice is still a bit in flux with either the stock ZZ502 cam or the HP500 cam

Rockers are comp cam rollers

The rotating assembly will be balanced

The result will be 9.6:1 motor in the 500hp range at 5500 rpm. The machine shop thinks it will be a good bit higher

Now to finalize the mockup of the brackets, etc and get the block to the machine shop
 

Scott Danforth

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Spent last two weeks looking for a local machine shop that isnt booked for 12 weeks. the ones with machine time available have filthy shops and when I asked about sonic testing, magnaflux texting or cleaning the block, I got a "we dont got a sonic tester, used to, however it broke"

Right now, awaiting to hear back from Kris at Nelson Competition and Scott from Innovation Marine

Tore the 454 block down for taking to machine shop. The motor had two spun rod bearings and 3 broken rings.

tech tips:
  • when removing core plugs on a bbc, instead of attempting to pry them out, simply pound them inward and remove from the coolant passages
  • use a 3/8" bolt pounded and threaded into the check valve inserts in the oil passages to remove them
  • when removing the 1/4" square drive pipe plugs from the back of the block around the cam oil gallery, use a torch to heat the block, and use the hand impact driver with one of these https://www.amazon.com/Female-Impact.../dp/B00M8H9MAW to remove. broke a ratchet and extension that I now need to get replaced

1210161315_zps4twtipsu.jpg 1210161345_zps4aaiejac.jpg 1210161315a_zpsurlntvtk.jpg



Just finished up the oil pan http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...r-a-gen-iv-bbc

going to strip the blue paint from the EMI's and give them a black wrinkle finish over the powder coat underneath that blue paint
 
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Scott Danforth

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One should not wear flip flops when working on an engine on the stand. Managed to smack the toes into the steel casters. Broke at least one toe.
 

Scott Danforth

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back on the project now. a few expensive weekends since the new year with the Stepson getting a blow-out ant taking out a CV boot/fender/trim ($800), the dog developing a fast growing mast cell tumor ($700 in emergency vet bills) and still lost the dog a few days later. then had to replace the service entrance to the garage ($700)....not to mention the admiral going on a spending spree on wayfair.com

as of this afternoon, the block is at the machine shop. estimate $600-800 for bore, hone, line-bore, and balance. hope to have it done in about 6 weeks (the shop is busy along with all the other shops in the area. This shop was recommended by innovation marine

new Wiseco forged pistons ordered today $421 on ebay

next will be the ARP studs from either Ebay or FRP Sport later today. estimate $220

a few weeks back use an amazon gift card for the oilpump, pickup, oil pump shaft and ARP oil pump stud. - cost me $21 out of pocket
 

Scott Danforth

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So while im waiting for the machine shop. I need to work on a gew other things. Built this mobile workbench today to work on the heads and PDS housing.
0212171842_zps8ggyf9hg.jpg
 
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southkogs

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^^^ Been thinking about making a couple of those. Trying to rearrange the garage a little bit.
 

Scott Danforth

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two 2' x 4' handy panels, some scrap plywood, 7 2x4's and I sacrificed a harbor freight moving dolly for the casters.

I made room on the ends for cans of brake cleaner and penetrating oil and of course, location for the beer bottle.
 

alldodge

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Like the plan ahead also, but use cans in the shop, don't want glass around
 

Scott Danforth

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Like the plan ahead also, but use cans in the shop, don't want glass around

I already weld in shorts and flip-flops, and have broken my toes on the engine stand.......

a little glass wont hurt too much.
 

Scott Danforth

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The Admiral got me ARP head bolts for Valentines day.... now thats love.

0213171827_zpsvzy36mkq.jpg
 
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Scott06

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She's a keeper, especially if she knew which bolt set was correct.

Welded in shorts before as well, didn't work out so good for me. Got a piece of slag in my boot (open top rubber muck boots), sock was on fire when I got it off my foot. Spent 6 weeks on crutches...
 

Scott Danforth

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My amazon wish list links to ebay and other sites, so she had a shortcut.
 

alldodge

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Still wonder why so many buy APR bolts (I have also), because you can find grade 8 boats in a lot of places. Will say that when you go with APR you need to use their torque specs.
 
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