Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

[rondi]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Go getem Rondi...........

Useless . . . . . Totally useless!
Gotta use the head sometimes but ya can't win a pissin' match with a skunk.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Here is my $0.02, even thought I haven't had my Bayliner in the water yet.

I bought a 1984 Bayliner 1600 (16ft) Cuddy Cabin this summer because they are one of the very, very, very few (OK, the only one I could find) that made a 16' Cuddy Cabin with outboard power. I took my time and found one that was garage kept and used on fresh water.

What I can tell you about this well cared for 23 year old boat that spent most of its time pulling tubes, skiers, boards, etc, is that it has held up very well. The bow rail is solid as a rock, through bolted and all stainless (no Zmac crap). Same with the cleats. The horn and lighting work. The gel coat still shines, the floor is not rotted, and the transom is solid. Two screws that hold padded pannels on are stripped and missing the decorative cap. I suspect from the looks of the mangled screw head, this was an owner error. The upholstry is soft and has only a few small puncture marks, but that is just wear.

I see only one crack in the gel coat, and that is at a 90* corner of the cuddy doorway right below the crawl through windshield where it would take the full weight of someone crawling through the windshield. I suspect the crack (about 1 inch) was caused by someone large crawling through and NOT from the boat flexing while under way or it would be much worse.

The leather padded steering wheel (OEM by Dino) is soft and plyable, the aluminum is not corroded anywhere. All screws are stainless.

The cuddy door is in 3 sections that show wear and the wood grain is a little faded. The stainless hardware looks new. Two hinges were mounted a little crooked by the factory. The aluminum trim around the door opening is rivited on and is loose. The factory radio is mounted in the cuddy using a truly crappy plastic housing that doubles as a shelf and is cracked. The dome light in the cuddy is cracked also and discolored from the heat of the bulb. Its typical camper hardware. These three items, the door, radio mount and dome light are by far the cheapest parts on the boat.

The transom is supported by knee braces under the splashwell and are completely encased in fiberglass and gel coat. Rough finish, but completely sealed. Looking in the ski locker in the floor, I don't see traditional wood stringers. It looks like the stepped V hull is designed so that the plywood floor fits directly into notches in the hull with fiberglass ribs supporting the rest. I'm still investigating this. Two bulkheads have holes to allow drainage of water throught the ski locker and out the drain hole in the transom. All holes in the bulkheads are completely sealed with glass and gel coat. Solid as solid can be.

I can't find any foam below the floor. But lots in the seat bases, and the high transom "cap". So I don't expect to find any wet foam below the floor. We'll see after I remove all the carpet (which shows hardly any wear and is very heavy dudy) and drill into the ply. (I want to put a layer or two of glass then gel on the floor to make it easier to clean/hose out and eliminate all carpet on the floors). Where I pulled up the carpet, the plywood was coated with what looks like gel coat, but no glass.

So thats it. I think its a cool little boat, but like I said, I haven't tried it out yet. I had expected many crappy parts and stuff falling apart from 23 years of use but have not found that. All the important hardware, like bow rail, steering, gauges, cuddy hatch, etc are the same hardware you will find on many other brand boats.

I'm going to take it out on the water in a few weeks, if anyone wants, I'll post my evaluation of the boats performance.

The reason I bough Bayliner is because they made what I wanted. If there were more choices, I may have bought a Sea Ray or other popular brand. I have to admit that after reading negative opinions about Bayliners on this forum for the last 3 or 4 years, I am very pleased and surprised with the overall quality of this boat.

Update 07/17/07 I see that there are stringers in the boat. About 3" tall. Hard to tell from the hull because they were covered with fiberglass cloth and gel coat. Also removed one of the transom U bolts because I saw a rust stain on the inside of the transom and thought there was a water leak into the transom (OH NO! NOT ROT!). Turns out the U bolts are sealed with something that looks like 3M 4200 and the rust was because the bolt on the inside was not stainless. The transom was dry as a bone. The transom has the thickest layup of glass I ever saw. About a full 1/2 inch. Then the plywood (the owners manual indicates that all plywood used in construction is treated to prevent rot) and a very thin layer of chopper glass and a layer of gel coat.

The good news: The through hull fittings like U bolts are sealed well. The bad news: They skimped and used non-stainless nuts on the inside where you won't see it.

 

[thenotsofreeboat]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

The Battle Rages On!

 

[magster65]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

SeaRay Engine 4/5
Bayliner Engine 3/5
Maxum Engine 2/5 . . . . . don't they all share the same engine?

I guess Brunswick sends all the "good" engines to SeaRay and all the lemons are sent to Maxum.

that's funny!

 

[magster65]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

My updated opinion
OK... so I just sold my '03 240 Sundancer 'cause someone 'had to have it'. I'm shopping for another newish, similar sized boat again. I've been looking at and comparing the 24' Sea Ray and 24' Bayliner (both express cruisers). They look quite similar... but there is a difference for sure, the upholstery, materials and finishing aren't as good in the Bayliner but they're not awful, I'm sure the construction is different as well to a degree. They have the same power and interior options... the Sea Ray costs almost twice as much. I'm going to buy another Sea Ray (mainly because of brand loyalty and resale) but I can't honestly say the price difference reflects the quality difference. Bayliner is the 'bang for the buck' I think... moreso now than ever.
A person can get into a 2855 Bayliner for the price of a 240 Sundancer of similar years. When you compare them that way... take a look and go for a ride... you be the judge.
Most of the bashing is 'bandwagon' 70's mentality... no big deal.
We all share a common hobby... or passion... why some folks talk down their 'friends' boats I'll never understand. You see it in the hot rod car and Harley groups too but nothing like this.

 

[GooseyII]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

We just picked up a little 16 foot Bayliner Cascade bowrider this weekend. I haven't got it in the water yet, but have been crawling all over this thing. This boat is 30 years old, the floor is completely solid, not even any creaks anywhere. Gel coat still shines very nicely.

This boat was used often, hourmeter shows 2015 hours on it...and talking to the previous owner my understanding is the majority of that was out on the chuck for fishing. Granted he took very good care of it, but still I'm impressed with the condition of this particular boat. If anything is showing it's age it's the poor EZ loader under the boat. That I will have to throw a little time and money at I think.

I am also a 4x4 enthusiast and had hopes that brand snobbery was an automotive thing only. So sad to see it rear it's ugly head here too. <sigh>

For us it was difficult to find any older bowriders, as our budget dictated that we were looking at older boats only. The vast majority of the older boats here are geared more towards saltwater fishing which wasn't our main interest.

Anyways, I'm happy with what we bought so far. I have yet to find anything that concerns me regarding quality or level of maintenance by the previous owner. About the only cosmetic issue the boat has is a bit of corrosion on the cleats (rails are still great looking) and some upholstery wear. I'd wager most boats with 2000+ hours on em have a bit of upholstery wear though.

Ironically enough the guy we bought this boat from didn't have much good to say for any of the newer boats...go figure.

Rene

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

I am also a 4x4 enthusiast and had hopes that brand snobbery was an automotive thing only. So sad to see it rear it's ugly head here too. <sigh>

This is such a good point...its disappointing but on any given Sunday we all often end up doing it.
As for the boats...the SeaRay is undeniably a better built boat. It is also a lot more money. The Bayliner is a good boat.....I've got one and so far its been great.
Everyone out there beating the ol' pro SeaRay & pick on a lesser model comparison/thing better not be driving any Fords/Dodges and Chevs when they could be driving a Toyota Tundra. There for the better is no comparison.
Why doesn't everyone buy a Tundra....because they are 30% more money on purchase day.
Its best not to get too caught up in comparisons that are heavily tied to budgets and pricing....because someones going to catch you on something you bought...somewhere.
If you have the extra cash...buy a SeaRay...if you don't buy a Bayliner in good condition....and get out there!!! Yeah!!

 

[dolphin1]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Hi guys,
Just wanted to mak a comment sometimes I feel a little embarassed when I'm around other boaters with either of my bays because of the tude people have. I keep my first bay 1986 2150SB in jupiter,Fl after running to here in NC for 17 years.Finally dropped a rod in 03,set a new 350 in and let her rip. Never had any other issues, but one of the best mouments on the water was in morehead city,NC when a friend of my who gave me crap over my boat needed me to come to him in from the outside he was in his $135,000 fountain. imagine the dock talk 03 fountain towed by bayliner

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

...I hear ya' Dolphin.
I just back from the interior of BC where I rented a cottage on the lake. The boat next door was missing for most of the week. It was a $60K 'Tige' Wakeboard boat. Apparently it couldn't do more than 1/2 throttle for unknown reasons. It was (1) of (5) Tige' boats in so far this season for similar repairs. Apparently something to do with the super 'hyper' control drive/ski/wake/ECM module......right. (so much for a throttle/gear lever and operator ability....next you will have to download an online code before your boat will start.....yeah!!!)
Well, I've been out so far on 15 trouble free trips...on a pretty modest budget including my (Bayliner) boat purchase. My entire season is probably the tax on this $60k boat.
If my $60K brag-boat bagged it at 1/2 throttle I'd jam it up my dealers......Well safe to say, as per budget that would never cut it with me. I believe and understand 'bang for buck'.
However, a lot of boaters again know...the price of everything and the value of nothing. By the way I'm getting tired of bringing that point up with those who have never really worked too hard for anything.
Ok...back on track.....get a boat and get the heck out there and have some fun!!!!

 

[dolphin1]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

you know prarrie its all about how you take care of your toys. trusted my old 86 sb so much I went and bought a 98 2655sb 52 hours on the meter and a three month old 10,000lbs alum trailer for $18000.looked at others but most of there floorplans i didnt like wife likes the L-couch on deck. Added tv,auto-pilot gen-set etc love it. Pulls great behind my 36 class A.Now owning two bays I guess I,ll be looked down on twice as hard.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

I never did understand how the "small" Bayliner boats get criticized, but big Bayliner yachts are held in high regard, like this 53 foot 1999 5288. Wonder if I should tell him his transom is rotting.....

 

[sankanother1]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

If I ever were to buy a Sea Ray I will put Bayliner Decals on it. What FUN!!!! That said..There are worse boats than Bayliners out there,I don't own one but have freinds that do...I can tell you that I had a 1976 Checkmate..What a POS.I would take a Bayliner over it anyday...But look at how quality progresses.I never heard of anyone cut down a Checkmate...

 

[roscoe]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Every year.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

It's not only the improvements the manufacturer makes, its also how the boat PERFORMS. I finally got my 16 foot Bayliner on a lake for a test drive and I was very impressed at how well it handled. It reacted nicely to input from the helm and throttle, and cut nice tight turns without sliding out under generous throttle.

In fact, I have driven other (nearly new) cuddy cabins that no matter what the trim was set at, the boat wallowed, wandered and did everything in its power to go anywhere but where you pointed it. And these were all boats that would rate themselves above the Bayliner brand.

To me the Bayliner stepped V hull performance was the icing on the cake. A cheap boat in great condition that performs better than expected. What more can you ask for?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Having owned a 2150 1987 Bayliner Capri, I would have to say to not buy one made in the mid to late 80's and into the early 90s. Those were the years when boat sales were falling off and Bayliner was doing everything they could to lower the prices at the cost of quality.

 

[pau hana]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Resurrecting the dead


Just my .02. I read this thread with a lot of chuckles, as there are plenty of well educated, knowledgeable, opinionated folks who mean well.....

......and are dead wrong.

I insure boats for a living. Every day. I see boats from 15' to 100+', with values from 1K to 8 digits, from model year 1911 to 2009 (pre-production hulls). I can tell you that your opinion on Bayliners are completely based on speculation and not fact.

Fact- Brunswick builds/owns Bayliner, Sea Ray, Meridian, Maxum, Boston Whaler, Hatteras, Cabo, Albermarle, Laguna, Sea Pro, Crestliner, Triton, Mercury Engine, etc. They're the biggest player in the industry.

Fact- Bayliner would not be around if they were as bad as y'all speculate- that would be too much liability for even Bill Gates to absorb.

Fact- there is no empirical evidence that Bayliners have a higher failure rate than others makes/models. My data comes from industry claim data.

The argument that "there are no workboat Bayliners, and that's why they're junk" is pure hoke. There are no workboat Sea Rays, or Cobalts, or Regals, either- but they are never heaped on the same pile as Bayliner..

All manufacturers improve their product with the advent of technology- today, Grady White is considered a premium boat, but not so long ago they were vilified for transom rot.


Like 'em or hate 'em- there is a desire for boats across the entire price spectrum- Bayliner fits its niche, as do the others.

Try to separate fact from fiction- you'll see that the fact far outweighs the fiction. For the record, I own a trophy, as it meets my needs.

 

[JCF350]

Re: Bayliner Quality - what year improved?

Resurrecting the dead
The argument that "there are no workboat Bayliners, and that's why they're junk" is pure hoke. There are no workboat Sea Rays, or Cobalts, or Regals, either- but they are never heaped on the same pile as Bayliner...

Speak for yourself. I know plenty of people that do, including myself.

 

[Josaphin]

Got a 90 2561 Ciera Sunbridge which is the same as the 250 maxum (which was manufactured on the eastern shore in Salisbury). Great boat, lightly built with no wood used on the top sole so no soft spots. There seems to be a lot less wood used in its construction than other boats with better pedigrees of the same year. I've worked on a few of the more popular boats out there and beneath the interior fitment they are all made the in the same way with the same technology. A lot of them use 2x4 stringers to support the top decks

I find that the deep vee hull is really stable at speed compared to flat bottomed Sundancers. It's 4300 lbs dry as opposed to 5500 to 6000 so safely pulling it with a a 1500 series truck or SUV is actually possible. With the base 300 ci engine and the alpha 1 gen 1 out drive I've had mine up 45 mph (advertised top speed is 37) whenever conditions have allowed on the Chesapeake with 4 good sized people, full fuel and all the gear and suppiles that a weekend that putsing around on the eastern shore requires. It is not quick to get on plane but not too slow either. It's good for about 5-6 MPG so long as its up on plane! At hull speed im lucky to get 2-2.5 mpg. Pounds a lot less than many other boats out there. The electrical system is basic like the old 240 volvos. I stripped back the wires to good copper and installed new brass connectors at all connections on the fuse block and labled it. I'm looking for something weather proof to cover it.

Nearly stern drive boats are running the mercruiser drive system so the brand of boat does not matter when it comes to reliability. The maintenence of the drive train as well as the the way the boat is both used and kept does. All of that said the cheap fittings do hold up structurally, they just starting look like crap after more than three decades. The interior build quality is could be better especially the cabinetry, but nothing has broken or been repaired and every thing works as intended, even the original refrigerator and hot water heater.

Overall I find it a well balanced boat in that It does everything every other boat in its class does except cheaper. Next time you're in a full service boat yard or marina you'll find the more of older lighter built cheap boats that have no wood in thier decks than the older "higher end brands" that do.

 

[tpenfield]

@Josaphin Welcome to iBoats . . . .
Please review the forum rule regarding to posting to old threads and feel free to start a new thread of your own to get current input.

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