Bad trigger? Can’t adjust timing

[The Force power]

Could it be the starter not spinning at full speed. Even with a fully charged battery the start takes like 2-3 turns before it starts spinning quickly and starts.

Check your cables for cuts/corrosion& see if the ends are clean / connections tight. Weak starter ? clean the armature /check brushes

 

[Justinde]

Hello I have a 1988 force 125 motor and I’ve been having problems getting it to run good timing was way out of time got it set to 28 and cleaned the carbs in some chem dip came out shining. Boat ran better but still not good and would pop and backfire and die.
Then took it out to water to test it ran for about enough time to get me out of the dock then died and wouldn’t turn back on out of desperation I messed with the timing got it to turn on limped back home. Set it aside.
Currently I’ve cleaned the carbs again just in case new needles. bowl gasket and mount gasket new port gaskets. When to start the boat and it didn’t like to start but it would and just stall after like 40 second then once it warms up it stays on for a while but will stall eventually. I remember I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc. Could it be a bad trigger
Please help and thanks for your time. I just wanna go fishing?

Not sure but timing should be 32-34 BTC…..

 

[Jiggz]

Check your cables for cuts/corrosion& see if the ends are clean / connections tight. Weak starter ? clean the armature /check brushes

Do the above and pay attention to the grounding cable that connects to the engine block. This is the usual culprit when starter gets weak. DON'T JUST CLEAN IT. Disconnect it, clean the cable terminal to a shine and also the mating surface on the engine block. Reconnect tight and then put on some dielectric grease to keep it clean. If this does not solve it, overhaul the starter.

 

[The Force power]

Do the above and pay attention to the grounding cable that connects to the engine block. This is the usual culprit when starter gets weak. DON'T JUST CLEAN IT. Disconnect it, clean the cable terminal to a shine and also the mating surface on the engine block. Reconnect tight and then put on some dielectric grease to keep it clean. If this does not solve it, overhaul the starter.

In addition;
Inspect/clean/ tighten the nuts on the starter-relay, also check for a voltage drop across the terminals while cranking; a large voltage-drop can be caused by pitted contacts in the relay

 

[Oillywater]

Do the above and pay attention to the grounding cable that connects to the engine block. This is the usual culprit when starter gets weak. DON'T JUST CLEAN IT. Disconnect it, clean the cable terminal to a shine and also the mating surface on the engine block. Reconnect tight and then put on some dielectric grease to keep it clean. If this does not solve it, overhaul the starter.

The starter is new like 2-3 months from Amazon.

Check your cables for cuts/corrosion& see if the ends are clean / connections tight. Weak starter ? clean the armature /check brushes

I’ll check the connection can clean them sure they could use it anyway.

Not sure but timing should be 32-34 BTC…..

I’m doing it static which is at cranking speeds and according to ther man frank it should either be at 28-30. But I could also be wrong

Would any of this be related to the magneto. Got a new ignition switch and bypassed the safety switch but the motor only turns on when I disconnect the magneto from the cable bar where everything else is connected. I also need to fix that no way to turn off the engine unless I choke it or cover the carbs

 

[The Force power]

I’m doing it static which is at cranking speeds and according to the man frank it should either be at 28-30. But I could also be wrong

Would any of this be related to the magneto. Got a new ignition switch and bypassed the safety switch but the motor only turns on when I disconnect the magneto from the cable bar where everything else is connected. I also need to fix that no way to turn off the engine unless I choke it or cover the carbs

You're getting the wrong advice! static timing should be at 28 !!
when the engine is running WOT 5000+ RPMS the timing will be at 32 (or so)
TO KILL the engine; attach a jumper wire to the White or black/yellow wire at the terminal-block, the other end of the wire touch to ground FIRMLY (this kills the ignition-circuit)
TO CHECK the kill-circuit for shorting to ground; follow the White or black/yellow wire to the black/yellow wire to the CDI unit

 

[Oillywater]

You're getting the wrong advice! static timing should be at 28 !!
when the engine is running WOT 5000+ RPMS the timing will be at 32 (or so)
TO KILL the engine; attach a jumper wire to the White or black/yellow wire at the terminal-block, the other end of the wire touch to ground FIRMLY (this kills the ignition-circuit)
TO CHECK the kill-circuit for shorting to ground; follow the White or black/yellow wire to the black/yellow wire to the CDI unit

Ya that’s what I’ve been putting it to 28.
Ok white black yellow cable cdi unit simple enough. Thanks

 

[Jiggz]

The starter is new like 2-3 months from Amazon.

I’ll check the connection can clean them sure they could use it anyway.

I’m doing it static which is at cranking speeds and according to ther man frank it should either be at 28-30. But I could also be wrong

Would any of this be related to the magneto. Got a new ignition switch and bypassed the safety switch but the motor only turns on when I disconnect the magneto from the cable bar where everything else is connected. I also need to fix that no way to turn off the engine unless I choke it or cover the carbs

Manual states the maximum static timing for your type of motor is 34BTC. Dynamic is 32BTDC. But because of the age and slop of the motor, even 28 degrees will do. A few degree difference will not stop the motor from running smoothly. Instead, it only affects max RPM at WOT.

So if you timed it at 32BTDC static, you could end up getting 30BTDC dynamic and will probably lose 20-50 RPM's at WOT. Again this doesn't affect the smooth running of the motor. I always recommend timing at 30 BTDC +/- 2 degrees. And then fine tune later when the motor is running smoothly and just want to get more RPM at WOT.

When you say magneto, what are you referring to? The stator's alternator for the charging system? While fine tuning and troubleshooting starting problems, you can disconnect the stator charging system from the rectifier (yellow wires) and taped off and will not have any affect on the timing nor the starting and running of the motor. The only thing affected will be the battery getting discharge from the boat's accessories that uses electrical power. The 125's are self-sustaining when it comes to electrical power, hence the need for a strong starter for higher rpm during starting so as to produce enough electricity for the CDM's and coils to generate spark.

 

[Jiggz]

"I remember I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc. Could it be a bad trigger"

Not really sure how you accomplished to do this. Checked the timing with your "timing gun" at full throttle. Did you do this with the engine off and the throttle control (one by the driver side) at max forward (WOT) while fully cranking the motor? With the timing gun connected to the #1 spark plug wire? And the timing gun aimed at the flywheel markings. And you got "tdc"?. What is tdc in this case? Although I know TDC stands for Top Dead Center. But if you are using a timing gun tdc will be indicated by "0" (zero) degree on the flywheel markings. Or were you in the water? If you have not done a static timing on this motor you might want to check the sticky notes on how it is done accordingly. Or watch a youtube video.

 

[The Force power]

Manual states the maximum static timing for your type of motor is 34BTC. Dynamic is 32BTDC. But because of the age and slop of the motor, even 28 degrees will do. A few degree difference will not stop the motor from running smoothly. Instead, it only affects max RPM at WOT.

In reality the motor/pistons will suffer IF rpms not monitored at WOT (in my opinion)

 

[Oillywater]

"I remember I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc. Could it be a bad trigger"

Not really sure how you accomplished to do this. Checked the timing with your "timing gun" at full throttle. Did you do this with the engine off and the throttle control (one by the driver side) at max forward (WOT) while fully cranking the motor? With the timing gun connected to the #1 spark plug wire? And the timing gun aimed at the flywheel markings. And you got "tdc"?. What is tdc in this case? Although I know TDC stands for Top Dead Center. But if you are using a timing gun tdc will be indicated by "0" (zero) degree on the flywheel markings. Or were you in the water? If you have not done a static timing on this motor you might want to check the sticky notes on how it is done accordingly. Or watch a youtube video.

Not gonna lie that’s a lot of information more me to take in lmao so I’m gonna have to read it like 6 times. So forgive me if I say something that doesn’t make sense.
Let me start from the beginning to clear something up.
I bought the boat not running or cranking found out the problem for it not cranking was starter solenoid. Then it just wouldn’t start at all it had no gas so I rebuilt the pump. Started getting gas still wouldn’t fire tested for spark had I had no spark. Took me a while but I tired disconnecting the magneto from the circuit that the main harness connects to and it started up but back fired really bad. Asked for some help was told to change port gaskets and do timing changed gaskets. And found the timing was off at about 14 degrees ATDC set it to 28 degrees cranking speed at WOT. Started it up ran good sounded good. Took it out to the water and ran ok when around the dock stalled and I couldn’t get it back on before I Knew it I was about 1 mile then 2 miles then 3 miles from the dock hahaha. It was funny. I messed with the timing just to see what would happen. Idk what happened but it started but sounded rough. Made it home. And now I’m here. I checked the timing and no matter what which way I turned that timing screw it would not move from tdc and this is out of the water in a storage bucket with water in it not enough to cover the exhaust but enough to get water and with a simple timing gun on the first spark plug wire. This is all with magneto still disconnected. Then for the second time I hooked up the timing light and all the sudden the adjustment screw actually moves the timing. But the mark on the fly wheel would disappear then come back. The mark on the fly wheel being tdc. I could move it but there was no way I could get the screw to move enough to get to 28degrees. It would also disappear and the stall. Oh also cleaned and rebuilt carbs and I cleaned them like 5 times and even dipped them in chem dip for about 7 hrs Sorry if some stuff doesn’t make sense.
Currently boat takes a while to start and it will stall and pop but once it’s hot it stays on for acouple mins but then it will pop and putt and stall I’ve also been following franks video on carb sync and timing. But I think I got the timing reversed and have been setting it to 28 static instead of 30 static which I will fix. And thanks for the advice

 

[Oillywater]

I’m leaning towards trigger but you guys are the ones with the knowledge. This is my first boat my first 2 stroke. My first water vessel. I mainly stick to my cars haha but I also love to fish. I’ll take anyone fishing if I can get this damn boat working

 

[The Force power]

I’m leaning towards trigger but you guys are the ones with the knowledge.

At this point....me too
what is this magneto you keep referring to?

 

[Oillywater]

At this point....me too
what is this magneto you keep referring to?

The system that allows you to turn off the motor from the ignition switch. Currently if I start the motor even if I turn the key all the way off it doesn’t shut off since I have it disconnected. But if I have it connected it won’t start. No spark

 

[The Force power]

The system that allows you to turn off the motor from the ignition switch. Currently if I start the motor even if I turn the key all the way off it doesn’t shut off since I have it disconnected. But if I have it connected it won’t start. No spark

IF I understand you correctly?? you mean; IF the ignition-switch is connected you have no spark
when the switch is NOT connected you HAVE spark?
Sounds to me you have the kill wire circuit shorting to ground somewhere from the switch to the terminal-strip in the engine

 

[topgun3690]

At this point....me too
what is this magneto you keep referring to?

Think he is referring to the stator.....a magneto produces current for the spark, like a lawn mower engine. And I think he is saying he disconnected the stator charging wires going to the rectifier, for some reason.....

 

[Jiggz]

Since this is your first boat, 2 stroke motor too. Let me give you an overview of the electrical function of the motor. Refer to the wiring diagram previously provided.
1. Stop Switch - this is really not your ordinary everyday stop button. Instead, this is the Safety Lanyard switch for emergency. To prevent a boat from running like a ghost boat when the driver is thrown overboard, this switch will stop the motor. This is as long as the lanyard on this switch is worn by the driver. Note the White and Blue wires connected to the two M terminals.
2. Ignition Switch - Has 6 terminals and each function as follows:
-(2) M terminals - connects two wires, ground wire and shut down wire (White) from the CD modules. In parallel is the Safety Lanyard switch. When in "Off" position these two contacts are in close position, i.e. shunting the CD's shut down wire to ground stopping sparks in the spark plugs. When in "On" position, these contacts are in open position. Allowing the CD modules to deliver spark to the plugs through the ignition coils.
-(1) B Contact - connects to Battery
-(1) C Contact - connects to Choke solenoid. When the ignition sw is pushed in, this contact connects to the B terminal to energized the choke solenoid.
- (1) S Contact - connects to starter solenoid thus energizing the starter
- (1) "I" Contact - connects to accessories like the Overheat Buzzer and even radio is built in. This contact connects to the "B" terminal when ignition sw is in the ON position.

As for the timing not staying where it is set. Check the plastic block attaching the timing tower to the timing screw. It could be cracked or stripped of threads, thus free playing.

 

[The Force power]

Check the plastic block attaching the timing tower to the timing screw. It could be cracked or stripped of threads, thus free playing.

It crossed my mind as well but then I thought.......no way?!?!
interesting story;
I had a '82 Merc. 50HP that the arm of the trigger-ring had cracked on, so it wouldn't move when/where it should .
Needles to say; it took me until I removed the fly-wheel to discover that

 

[Oillywater]

IF I understand you correctly?? you mean; IF the ignition-switch is connected you have no spark
when the switch is NOT connected you HAVE spark?
Sounds to me you have the kill wire circuit shorting to ground somewhere from the switch to the terminal-strip in the engine

Ya I guess it’s it ignition switch and the safety lanyard switch I replaced the ignition switch and bypass the safety switch. But if they are connected it won’t start. if not, it will. I also think it is grounding out somewhere but I have no idea where. I’ll look for it but main reason I’m asking if to see if that could make the engine stall if I don’t have them connected.

Think he is referring to the stator.....a magneto produces current for the spark, like a lawn mower engine. And I think he is saying he disconnected the stator charging wires going to the rectifier, for some reason.....

no I’ll try to send a picture. Tomorrow. The circuit right below the starter with the sticker next to it that has all the terminals labeled. one says magneto if I disconnect the lead that goes there I have spark. I only disconnect the rectifier once and that was cuz @Nordin asked me too. Which it ran the same I think I forgot to mention that

Since this is your first boat, 2 stroke motor too. Let me give you an overview of the electrical function of the motor. Refer to the wiring diagram previously provided.
1. Stop Switch - this is really not your ordinary everyday stop button. Instead, this is the Safety Lanyard switch for emergency. To prevent a boat from running like a ghost boat when the driver is thrown overboard, this switch will stop the motor. This is as long as the lanyard on this switch is worn by the driver. Note the White and Blue wires connected to the two M terminals.
2. Ignition Switch - Has 6 terminals and each function as follows:
-(2) M terminals - connects two wires, ground wire and shut down wire (White) from the CD modules. In parallel is the Safety Lanyard switch. When in "Off" position these two contacts are in close position, i.e. shunting the CD's shut down wire to ground stopping sparks in the spark plugs. When in "On" position, these contacts are in open position. Allowing the CD modules to deliver spark to the plugs through the ignition coils.
-(1) B Contact - connects to Battery
-(1) C Contact - connects to Choke solenoid. When the ignition sw is pushed in, this contact connects to the B terminal to energized the choke solenoid.
- (1) S Contact - connects to starter solenoid thus energizing the starter
- (1) "I" Contact - connects to accessories like the Overheat Buzzer and even radio is built in. This contact connects to the "B" terminal when ignition sw is in the ON position.

As for the timing not staying where it is set. Check the plastic block attaching the timing tower to the timing screw. It could be cracked or stripped of threads, thus free playing.

There’s alittle crack but seems to hold the screw fine and when I tighten the nut it doesn’t seem to move at all

 

[Oillywater]

I decided to just buy a trigger. How do you change one out. I’ve searched on yt and nothing also on here no one really says how they changed it. I know I have to remove the flywheel and that it sits inside stator. That’s about it