Bad trigger? Can’t adjust timing

[Oillywater]

Hello I have a 1988 force 125 motor and I’ve been having problems getting it to run good timing was way out of time got it set to 28 and cleaned the carbs in some chem dip came out shining. Boat ran better but still not good and would pop and backfire and die.
Then took it out to water to test it ran for about enough time to get me out of the dock then died and wouldn’t turn back on out of desperation I messed with the timing got it to turn on limped back home. Set it aside.
Currently I’ve cleaned the carbs again just in case new needles. bowl gasket and mount gasket new port gaskets. When to start the boat and it didn’t like to start but it would and just stall after like 40 second then once it warms up it stays on for a while but will stall eventually. I remember I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc. Could it be a bad trigger
Please help and thanks for your time. I just wanna go fishing?

 

[Oillywater]

Hello I have a 1988 force 125 motor and I’ve been having problems getting it to run good timing was way out of time got it set to 28 and cleaned the carbs in some chem dip came out shining. Boat ran better but still not good and would pop and backfire and die.
Then took it out to water to test it ran for about enough time to get me out of the dock then died and wouldn’t turn back on out of desperation I messed with the timing got it to turn on limped back home. Set it aside.
Currently I’ve cleaned the carbs again just in case new needles. bowl gasket and mount gasket new port gaskets. When to start the boat and it didn’t like to start but it would and just stall after like 40 second then once it warms up it stays on for a while but will stall eventually. I remember I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc. Could it be a bad trigger
Please help and thanks for your time. I just wanna go fishing?

It actually reads slightly behind tdc like to the right of the mark

 

[Nordin]

First of all check if the flywheel key is shared.
You can do it without pulling the flywheel.
Pull the plugs and put a screw driver in top hole (cylinder #1).
Find TDC by turning the flywheel CW.
At TDC the zero mark at flywheel should line up with the lager line at the timing sticker or timing plate if it do not have a sticker.
If not, the key is shared.

 

[Oillywater]

First of all check if the flywheel key is shared.
You can do it without pulling the flywheel.
Pull the plugs and put a screw driver in top hole (cylinder #1).
Find TDC by turning the flywheel CW.
At TDC the zero mark at flywheel should line up with the lager line at the timing sticker or timing plate if it do not have a sticker.
If not, the key is shared.

All ready did that sorry forgot to mention it. And also would the motor even start if I have the screw all the way screwed in for timing cuz that’s how I left it and it would still start

 

[Nordin]

Okey, it will start if the spark advance is about 0-4 dgr BTDC at idle speed.
But it would not speed up in RPM at WOT if the spark advance is 0-4 dgr BTDC, it would die.
As it is starting the triggers are okey if it is running at all 4 cylinders.
If the spark advance is 0-4 dgr BTDC at WOT it looks like the CDI box for cylinder 1 and 2 are bad because the spark advance of the triggers is mechanical as you move the trigger ring to advance the timing.

 

[jerryjerry05]

I'd bet it's sucking air someplace??
Get it running, can of starting fluid, spray the SF around the intake side of the motor, this includes under the packs and the base of thew carbs and the 4 port covers.
If? this makes any difference in the way it runs?? then it's sucking air

 

[Oillywater]

Okey, it will start if the spark advance is about 0-4 dgr BTDC at idle speed.
But it would not speed up in RPM at WOT if the spark advance is 0-4 dgr BTDC, it would die.
As it is starting the triggers are okey if it is running at all 4 cylinders.
If the spark advance is 0-4 dgr BTDC at WOT it looks like the CDI box for cylinder 1 and 2 are bad because the spark advance of the triggers is mechanical as you move the trigger ring to advance the timing.

It does look like it’s about 4 dgr btdc. I can give it gas once it’s warmed up and it would either die as it comes off gas or just keep running like nothing wrong or it would pop then die right after.

Also I saw you said something about magneto. My magneto doesn’t work currently bought a new ignition and kill switch thinking it was that. Only way to get the boat started is it to disconnect the magneto wire at that little circuit board thing next to the starter with all the other cables.

I'd bet it's sucking air someplace??
Get it running, can of starting fluid, spray the SF around the intake side of the motor, this includes under the packs and the base of thew carbs and the 4 port covers.
If? this makes any difference in the way it runs?? then it's sucking air

I’ll try this later today but I have changed all the port gaskets and carb gaskets to try to fix this problem. But none the less I’ll still give it a shot

 

[Nordin]

When I mention magneto I was meaning the trigger ring that moves to advance the timing. I use the wrong word that was why I changed to trigger ring.
I suppose your engine has the Prestolite ignition system with 2 CDI boxes (blue or black) and 4 ignition coils.
I would suggest you to disconnect the rectifier/regulator and see what happens.

 

[Oillywater]

When I mention magneto I was meaning the trigger ring that moves to advance the timing. I use the wrong word that was why I changed to trigger ring.
I suppose your engine has the Prestolite ignition system with 2 CDI boxes (blue or black) and 4 ignition coils.
I would suggest you to disconnect the rectifier/regulator and see what happens.

Yup you are correct it’s 2 blue cdi boxes and 4 coils. The rectifier is the is little black box with like 4 terminals on it next to the starter? What should I expect to see when I disconnect it. It running normally lol

 

[Nordin]

The rectifier/regulator can interfere and make the ignition system to act confusing and fail.
Outboardignitiondotcom has troubleshooting chart, go through that chart and check out with your engine.

 

[Oillywater]

The rectifier/regulator can interfere and make the ignition system to act confusing and fail.
Outboardignitiondotcom has troubleshooting chart, go through that chat and check out with your engine.

I don’t really see any category that matches my problems like it only talks about no spark, spark in one cylinder or no spark on 2 cylinder. Which when I did a spark test I had spark in all cylinders.
Also stator looks to be new. At least from what I can tell
So trigger is prob good? so I should look into cdi box or rectifier. And spray some starter fluid

 

[jerryjerry05]

New port cover gaskets, ONE TINY backfire or cough can blow these gaskets.

 

[Oillywater]

New port cover gaskets, ONE TINY backfire or cough can blow these gaskets.

Dang ok. I’ll be checking it with startfluid then

 

[The Force power]

I messed with the timing so set up my gun to it and noticed it was at tdc at full throttle. Then moved the screw nothing. Even moved it all the way out and all the way in. It stayed at tdc.

Out of curiosity; What screw are you referring to? at bottom of the timing tower OR at the trigger-ring

 

[Oillywater]

Out of curiosity; What screw are you referring to? at bottom of the timing tower OR at the trigger-ring

The timing screw at trigger under the fly wheel

 

[The Force power]

Yup you are correct it’s 2 blue cdi boxes and 4 coils. The rectifier is the is little black box with like 4 terminals on it next to the starter? What should I expect to see when I disconnect it. It running normally lol

Check all the wire-terminals, the wires tend to break under shrink-tube.
Give them all slight tug to see if the wire is actually still connected to terminal.
Also check for proper/correct hook-up

 

[Oillywater]

Check all the wire-terminals, the wires tend to break under shrink-tube.
Give them all slight tug to see if the wire is actually still connected to terminal.
Also check for proper/correct hook-upView attachment 388662

Damn that’s a good diagram. Thanks. I’ll check this along with the other stuff like start-fluid and check cdi. I appreciate everyone’s help and time

 

[Oillywater]

I'd bet it's sucking air someplace??
Get it running, can of starting fluid, spray the SF around the intake side of the motor, this includes under the packs and the base of thew carbs and the 4 port covers.
If? this makes any difference in the way it runs?? then it's sucking air

Tried this I didn’t see anything changes. I did see some broken gaskets but when u sprayed there nothing happened. I think it was for the exhaust reeds. But I sprayed everything.

The rectifier/regulator can interfere and make the ignition system to act confusing and fail.
Outboardignitiondotcom has troubleshooting chart, go through that chart and check out with your engine.

Tired this nothing changed. Also checked the cdi box wiring

Check all the wire-terminals, the wires tend to break under shrink-tube.
Give them all slight tug to see if the wire is actually still connected to terminal.
Also check for proper/correct hook-upView attachment 388662

Also checked the wiring for the trigger everything is good

One thing I noticed is that now tdc while running is dead center of the timing mark and when I move the tower foward it would move with it. But while it’s idle the tdc mark would stay perfectly aligned and still but sometimes it would disappear for seconds then come back and the disappear and stall.

 

[Jiggz]

Need to verify the timing is correct before investigating further. This is especially true after you made adjustments to the timing screw on top of the timing tower. Make sure you are only using a simple inductive timing light, without those fancy auto advance settings. Thereafter, check fuel delivery. If you haven't done it yet, install a clear fuel filter just after the fuel pump outlet. A simple G2 or even G3 Fram from Wally's Mart will do. This is more for troubleshooting than filtering. Prime the fuel lines with the priming bulb. Watch the clear fuel filter to see if fuel is flowing. When starting do the same. Fuel filter should stay at least at half full or even higher if fuel pump is running correctly.

 

[Oillywater]

Need to verify the timing is correct before investigating further. This is especially true after you made adjustments to the timing screw on top of the timing tower. Make sure you are only using a simple inductive timing light, without those fancy auto advance settings. Thereafter, check fuel delivery. If you haven't done it yet, install a clear fuel filter just after the fuel pump outlet. A simple G2 or even G3 Fram from Wally's Mart will do. This is more for troubleshooting than filtering. Prime the fuel lines with the priming bulb. Watch the clear fuel filter to see if fuel is flowing. When starting do the same. Fuel filter should stay at least at half full or even higher if fuel pump is running correctly.

Ok will do. I have a simple light and a light that you are speaking of I will use the simple one and buy a clear filter. And reset the timing to 28 cranking. Try to get it done tomorrow
Could it be the starter not spinning ar full speed. Even with a fully charged battery the start takes like 2-3 turns before it starts spinning quickly and starts.