At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Your fine..just flush with a little acetone and you should be good.

YD.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Cheers YD. I am at work just now so if I get a chance I'll plug it into the airline and flush with some acetone.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Well folks, not much has been happening, I'm not getting much time on the boat at all, I'm working seven days a week just now. I have however finished the repair and a little fairing work.

I should really be postponing the gel shoot date again as I don't think I will have the fairing work as good as I had it before applying the gel by squeegy. But the problem I have is that I have to have the boat back on the trailer by monday as the house I am renting is on the market and I have to get the house in a veiwable condition, (boat parts everywhere) so I have to get the garage cleared so I can move the cap and outboard into it as they are in my back garden just now. So long story short - no matter what I have to spray it this weekend.

The hull doesn't seem too bad but I know its not gonna be perfect, I'm dreading letting the sunlight see the boat as this will show every imperfection. I'm just hoping its not too bad and that I can fair these areas out once the gel has been applied. worst case scenario is I could sand through the gel in some areas and I may have to spray it again in a couple of months when I move house, (hopefully it will be a house with a massive garage!!)

The areas I am most worried about is the keel and surrounding areas, these areas were really bad before I got the boat and I suppose I always knew I would never get it perfect. Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on myself, because when the boat is the right way up again these problem areas will never be seen, (argh but I know they are there!!)

It may just be nerves kicking in because I'm reaching a critical stage in this resto, I'm just gonna shut up now and get on with it

No more whining, promise

here is a couple of pics of where I was yesterday, I've now "finished" the fairing on this side, just have to give the other side a once over and I'm "good" to go.

Wish me luck:facepalm:

 

[erikgreen]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

If it were me, and I found a pocket of water as a complete surprise, I'd be doing some serious inspection/drilling of the inside of the hull. Is there any wood structure in your boat? What's the state of the hull reinforcing members?

Even if your whole boat is fiberglass and therefore can't rot, any water trapped inside could still freeze and damage the hull, ruining much of the time consuming work you're doing and going to do.

You can do a patch job from the outside on that hole, but the right way to be sure it's good is to patch it from the inside, otherwise you're just doing a half cosmetic half structural plug job. Plugs are sort of ok above the waterline, but underneath they really should be bonded to the inside of the hull as well as the outside.

It's up to you, but I'd be very wary at this point, and I'd go through the whole boat over again, looking for places water can collect and checking for any damage because of it. It's worrisome that the damage you noted let water in, but even more worrisome in my opinion that it didn't get back out, either through the way it came in or some other way, over the time this boat has spent indoors.

Believe me, it sucks to plan and start installing a new sparkling interior and slaving to create a shiny clean hull only to find out there's something underneath it all that's wrong.

Erik

You can't polish a turd, but you can gelcoat it.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

If it were me, and I found a pocket of water as a complete surprise, I'd be doing some serious inspection/drilling of the inside of the hull. Is there any wood structure in your boat? What's the state of the hull reinforcing members?

Even if your whole boat is fiberglass and therefore can't rot, any water trapped inside could still freeze and damage the hull, ruining much of the time consuming work you're doing and going to do.

You can do a patch job from the outside on that hole, but the right way to be sure it's good is to patch it from the inside, otherwise you're just doing a half cosmetic half structural plug job. Plugs are sort of ok above the waterline, but underneath they really should be bonded to the inside of the hull as well as the outside.

It's up to you, but I'd be very wary at this point, and I'd go through the whole boat over again, looking for places water can collect and checking for any damage because of it. It's worrisome that the damage you noted let water in, but even more worrisome in my opinion that it didn't get back out, either through the way it came in or some other way, over the time this boat has spent indoors.

Believe me, it sucks to plan and start installing a new sparkling interior and slaving to create a shiny clean hull only to find out there's something underneath it all that's wrong.

Erik

You can't polish a turd, but you can gelcoat it.

Thanks for the advise Erik.

It did really worry me at the time and since then I have gone over every inch of the hull looking for more soft/weak spots but fortunately the rest of the hull seems in good condition.

I realize that repair jobs like this should be repaired from the inside AND outside, but it seems virtually impossible to get to the inside without splitting the interior mould from the hull (This would be a nightmare of a job and I would seriously consider scrapping the project if this had to be done) I am going to take the chance and live with the repair I have already done.

I was also concerned with how the water got in there and also how it managed to stay there for so long, but I believe it may have been damaged before I got the boat and the glass must have absorbed the water through time. The reason the water stayed in there is because the hull is upside down and there seem to be solid glass (even thicker than the outer glass) about 1 inch below the outer glass. I'm sure if I stored the boat in its upright position in a dry heated place the water would eventually drain out from were it got in in the first place. But I am no expert. I wish there was some info out there on how my boat was constructed to give me a better idea.

I have repaired it to the best of my ability and I just hope it does the trick, I will be keeping a close eye on this one though. And as you say Erik, I hope the problem doesn't develop further once I have the hull and interior finished, that would be my worst nightmare.

Thanks again Erik for the advise.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Sorry Erik just realized I never answered one of your questions.

Is there any wood structure in your boat? What's the state of the hull reinforcing members?

There is no wood in the structure at all. Its all fibreglass with loads of foam and there seems to be a steel reinforcement running along the keel. But as I said I would love to know exactly how this boat was constructed without cutting it in half.

I may consider removing the interior mould once the hull is flipped, but I honestly wouldn't know were to start but ill have a look at it. And if it seems possible I might just attempt it.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Just remembered there is actually wood sandwiched in glass on the transom, but you all knew this anyway lol.

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I didn't manage to get the compressor I was originally going to get. I will be using two 9cfm compressors linked together. This should do the job considering the gun I am using only requires 9.75cfm, this is whats recomended when using the gun out of the box (suction feed) but since I am using a pressure pot it should require less than the 9.75cfm. So hopefully it will last for the 10 minute intervals I need it for.

Once I pick up the compressors tomorrow I will have everything thats needed for the spray. (although a professional sprayer would be handy, any of you pro's out there want to come to the U.K. for the day)

So tomorrow and Saturday will be spent on finishing touches and the first coat of gel on Sunday morning. I'm hoping to shoot all the coats in one day but I have the compressors until Tuesday just in case. Hopefully the next time I post the hull will be all one color.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

I'm hoping to shoot all the coats in one day but I have the compressors until Tuesday just in case.

You really need to shoot All the coats in one day( and within hours ) ..You cant wait for the next day to continue your sprays..its NOT paint m8..its gel..

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Yd is it possible to spray next day? Also can you spray pure thinned gel and last coat with Duratech to allow cure and less sanding and buffing?

 

[morebass 17]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

You really need to shoot All the coats in one day( and within hours ) ..You cant wait for the next day to continue your sprays..its NOT paint m8..its gel..

YD.

My fault, I meant to say if worst comes to worst I would spray my first unwaxed coat completely on the first day and then my waxed coat the following day ( or is this still a no no? ) I know you cant spray on top of the waxed coat at all, unless sanded and preped again. But not to worry cause I'm gonna do it in one day I am just planning for the worst, ( burst airline , bust regulator, faulty compressor, gel sets in gun, I fall in the freshly sprayed gel etc. etc. )

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

You really need to shoot All the coats in one day( and within hours ) ..You cant wait for the next day to continue your sprays..its NOT paint m8..its gel..

YD.

YD.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

can you spray pure thinned gel and last coat with Duratech to allow cure and less sanding and buffing?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

can you spray pure thinned gel and last coat with Duratech to allow cure and less sanding and buffing?

Duratec is not advised for a hull that will spend much time in the sun or water. Can you do it yes, is it a good way to do it, no.

 

[DanielR]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Duratec is not advised for a hull that will spend much time in the sun or water. Can you do it yes, is it a good way to do it, no.

Isnt duratec an additive to gelcoat for hi gloss fisnish? 50:50 ratio with gelcoat for final stage is recommended by manufacturer.
I would not see a reason why adding 10% of it to final coat for a glossier finish would be a bad idea.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Duratec itself is not as water and UV resistant as gel coat, lots or reasons. You trade some water and UV resistance for leveling and easier sanding, the choice is up to you, most pro's don't use it for that reason. So it just depends on how you plan to use and store the boat.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

What I am considering is omitting the wax or pva to seal the gel for a full cure. Then on last coat use the duratec to seal the underlying gel so it comes to a full cure. I understand you will be sanding and buffing but this will remove part of the upper layer of duratec and gel. The underlying gell will be as pure as you can shoot out of a gun. Result should be a smother surface to prep with a good coat of gel underneath for water resistance and uv protection. Would the gel be splotchy due to 1 layer with duratec and the rest with as pure a gel as one could apply? I am just asking if this has been tried or why not to do it.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

At the risk of possible jacking the thread by OP MB's thread ..

You dont need wax or additives in the base coats of gel.only on the Top coat of application.

The reason for wax/duratek/patch aid or PVA is to lock in the chemicals that cure the gel. ( basically locking in the chems so the resins cure correctly at the surface..it will cure under that last coat ).

PVA is a very good application method if your unsure of how to mix wax or Dura or PA into your mix..best bet is to PVA after the gel application. ( no you Do Not need wax or other additives in your gel AT ALL technically ).

There called surfacing agents..its to lock in the chems so they dont evaporate/flash before they combine..leaving a tacky surface.

I have done many of repair without any pva or dura or patching additives..just wipe off that last sticky coat ( not fun on full jobs but have done it ) with acetone and lots of rags.

Im looking forward to the progress of MB's results .. need some update pics ..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Would the gel be splotchy due to 1 layer with duratec and the rest with as pure a gel as one could apply? I am just asking if this has been tried or why not to do it.

It's funny you asked about the blotchy finish. I actually had to go inspect a sail boat that had been refinished and the surface was very blotchy and as you sanded on it you could see all the different colors and layers. The person that sprayed it used patchaid, but he sprayed 5 separate coats of blue and didn't measure so the mixes were all different. The patchaid he used had wax in it and he waited until the next day when the prior layer was fully cured before applying the next one, but he never remove the waxed, cured surface. Plus the final coat was thinned with much more patchaid than any of the others so the finish would be smoother and easier to sand.

What happened was you could see the slight difference in color between each layer, plus you could see the waxed line between each layer. The biggest color difference was on the final layer that was thinned much more.

If you only used Duratec on the final coat and then wanted to sand off all the Duratec mix it would be fine, but this would involve much more sanding than not using it at all.

 

[proshadetree]

Re: At the gelcoat stage - help needed!!!

Thank you gentlemen for the extra education. I hope this might help others who find this thread as much as it did me.