are we all paying too much in tax

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

I would hate to live in UK, as I've heard thier taxes are simply insane....not that ours are not.<br />It's just that thier tax system is so lopsided, putting 90% of the tax burden on the ones who make the most money.<br />We do this, but to a lesser degree here. Maybe someday, there will be a major tax revolt here. Unfurtunately, our laws make such a revolt illegal.<br />Perhaps, in the not-to-distant future, we will be able to bring a flat tax to a referendum, and even tho the crooks will still be crooked, the burden will be fairly dispersed.
 

BJM

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jul 21, 2002
Messages
82
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Can you give me some examples for state sales taxes? In Ontario we pay 8% provincial sales tax and on top of that we pay 7% GST (Goods and Services Tax). We pay this for everything in stores to food in a restaurant. Gas, tobacco, and alcohol all have additional taxes, I am currently paying about $1.95US/US gallon for gas, up from about $1.63 a few weeks ago.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Djohns,<br /><br />While that may be true that revenue tripled in the 80's with tax cuts (Why then did Reagan institute tax increases I wonder in the latter part of his administration? Oh, well), all of the projections done by this administration and the OMB that they control suggest that with the current proposed tax cut, deficits are going to go thru the roof. Clearly they have so far under this administration at a rate far faster than they projected so far, so I take them at least at their word, and worry that they will be worse than expected.<br /><br />Tax cuts can indeed increase revenue-no argument from me at all- but they need to increase economic activity in order to do so. To the extent that they do, they will work. However, if they do not stimulate increased economic activity, they lead to less revenue to the government, and higher deficits.<br /><br />The other method government uses to stimulate the economy is trade policy. It is why I would argue that something like NAFTA has been a huge boon to this country. In theory, each country does some things well, and very economically, while it does other things less well. If free trade allows goods and services a free flow, and all take advantage of each others particular skills, it is the proverbial tide that lifts all boats.<br /><br />During the 90's when NAFTA was introduced, it was a factor that led to unprecedented growth and unprecedented low unemployment. On top of that, if other countries improve and expand their own economy by trade to the US, they become better customers of the US for the products we do well, and it helps all. On top of that, a country that expands its standard of living usually is always less a problem in the foreign policy realm.<br /><br />This country could do so much more if it resorted more to economic aid, both in the form of money and advice, than it will ever do with bombs and military force.<br /><br />Unfortunately, for whatever reason, this administration has reversed much of the trade policy, and we now have tariffs on things like steel, ostensibly to protect steel producers. It doesn't, as the new "minimills" located in this country are already competitive, and the old antiquated mills no amount of tariff is going to help.<br />We also have a huge tariff on softwood lumber coming in from Canada, (roughly 33%, although it varies a bit from one co to another) which tends to add a significant amount to the consumer in terms of the cost of a home, and yet helps only a few large timber and mill companies. <br />There are more tariffs, such as those on sugar, and I even got a note from my senator suggesting she was pushing to add a tariff on South African peaches, of all things, to help Washington peach growers!<br />All of these tariffs go specifically counter to improving our economy, no matter what the labor unions tell us.<br /><br />However, government can do a lot to affect the economy, and economics is a complex thing that sometimes takes time to take effect. It takes doing the right thing at the right time to have the desired effect, however. So far what has done has had a predictable effect. Perhaps with a new team in place, there will be some new ideas??
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

BJM,<br /><br />Here in Arizona, we pay 7.5% sales tax. That does not apply to food.<br /><br />Gasoline, today, averages $1.47 per gallon (87 octane).<br /><br />Alcohol and tobacco taxes are quite high, by our standards, averaging 12%.<br /><br />Property taxes vary a great deal depending on the community.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

BJM,<br /><br />Vehicle prices are quite a bit lower in Canada than they are in the US. (Used to be 20% or more a couple of years ago.) It has to do with Detroit needing a certain percentage of vehicles sold in Canada, vs manufactured in Canada and exported to the US. When you go to a car lot in Canada, you will see on the sticker a note saying that this vehicle is not intended to be sold in the US.<br />I purchased my Jeep in Canada, and when I returned to the US, I had to jump thru all sorts of hoops to get it thru American customs. Ostensibly, they told me they needed certification that it met all US EPA standards, but since it was made in the same factory in Toledo, Ohio, as all the other jeeps, chances are everyone knew it at least conformed.<br /><br />I had to get written approval to import the Jeep from Chrysler in Detroit, and without it, it can't be done, and cannot be registered and licensed in the US.
 

BassMan283

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
277
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

"Are we paying too much in tax?"<br /><br />Interesting question, easy answer.<br /><br />If there is a surplus of cash after paying for all required/desired services (regardless of whether you approve of them), the answer is yes. If there is a deficit, then the answer is no.
 

ebbtide176

Commander
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
2,289
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

i'm just happy with the latest tax changes. it dropped my taxes. it appears from all the info thusfar posted, that good/bad economy and surplus/deficit overall budget are things that go up/down according to what priorities our people & government have... <br />thanx for the good info guys. matts words stand out most to me.<br /><br />****<br /> Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.... <br />****<br /> I'm not a complete idiot; Some parts of me are missing <br />****<br /> :p
 

Jack Shellac

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Aug 7, 2002
Messages
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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

I believe that the primary function of the Federal goverment is national defense, protecting it's citizens from "all enemys, foriegn and domestic". I have absolutely no problem with paying taxes except for some of the wayout things that the goverment funds. Usually some politician buying votes with our money.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Florida;<br />6% sata sales tax.<br />No state income tax.<br />cigs areover 3buks per pack<br />gas is at $1.62per gal 87oct.
 

BR549

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Messages
87
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Although I hate seeing how much I pay in taxes, it is really good to keep everything in perspective. The US and Canada are two of the most wealthy countries in the world - good or bad the governments provide support to their citizens that do not work for whatever reason. Think about it - how often do you hear about people starving to death in North America ( I know that it does happen but as a percentage of the whole population it's miniscule). I do believe a tremendous amount of taxpayer money is wasted but I don't see politicians changing anytime soon. I have been fortunate enough to travel Europe and Central America and I got to say there is no place like home. For a laugh you guys need to see what goes on in Alabama - I just watched our local Mayor step out of his taxpayer provided 42,000 dollar luxury sedan and tell us how a half percent occupation tax increase is needed "for the children".
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

What about all the homeless people and some of them are vets.<br />You would think that the US would take care of our own first and then worry about the people of other countries.<br />If you think the homeless is a minor thing, take a look around in your major cities. There are plenty of them. Even in the little town I live in there are plenty and a lot that dies or is hospitalized because of the elements. <br />Just hard for me to figure and hope I never become homeless. :(
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Honestly, if I had less of a tax burden, I'd give much more at greater amounts to charity.<br /><br />The same is true with Social Security. The money that is wasted on that benefit could be very handy now in taking care of my ailing father. This concept could work for me and my children.<br /><br />Big taxes and big government? NO THANK YOU!<br />Social Security? Again, no thanks.<br /><br />Since it is sensible and fair to "give to Caesar, what is Caesar's." My only concern is the method and abuses.<br /><br /> Right from the start, the Constitution determined that direct taxes were oppressive and they should only exist for the sake of emergencies. This kept the power of the government at it least, putting the indirect tax, or the consumption of products as the only way the government could raise money to support itself.<br /> http://bluecollardollar.com/tax_primer_1.html <br /><br />In the best interests of World Bankers, several things were done in 1913 and 1933 to corrupt the Constitution. Our current form of taxation, the Federal Reserve, deficit spending and encroachment on the 4th,6th and 10th amendments through the War powers act.<br /><br />The taxes that US citizens pay is not something we vote on, or are even represented on. We don't have a say in how much or what kind. The Constitution had already made available these considerations. World Bankers were able to corrupt and buy this government 80-100 years ago making taxes forever stacked in their favor. The World Bankers were able to do more damage to the Constitution then the Trial Lawyers assault on it today.<br /><br />Other intents of the Constitution is to put limitations on the Government and its size. The larger the government the more thirsty for taxes.<br /><br />Of couse we pay way to much in taxes.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
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Re: are we all paying too much in tax

I belong to a group and I hope I don't get in trouble for this but it deals with taxes and why we don't really have to pay them.<br />Some very interesting stuff on this site.<br /> No-income tax <br />I am not trying to get anyone to join or anything, but it has to deal with this topic we are on and I just thought some of you might want to read some of this stuff about taxes.<br />If this is wrong, I hope JB, Mod1 or admn5 will let me know.
 

Tacklewasher

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,588
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

The biggest difference between the US and Canada is where the income tax rates top out. Someone earning 70K Cdn is paying a marginal rate of ~42% (in BC, it varies by province). From there up, the marginal rate doesn't change much. I understand that, while the top rate in the States is pretty close to that, you don't hit it until a much higher wage.<br /><br />We also have federal and provincial (except Alberta) sales taxes and all the rest of the taxes. Plus various fees for services that used to be provided for free.<br /><br />I guess the question of too much taxes is answered by looking at where the money goes. $1 billion for gun control registration tells me we pay too much in taxes.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: are we all paying too much in tax

Yeah, you folks in Canada pay for all sorts of stuff of dubious value. apparently someone felt it was what the people wanted, I guess.<br /><br />And in my time in Canada, I was amazed that lots of people that should know, had no idea what a service was worth. I remember one night in the middle of the night, I decided to help one of my crew change a chipper knive--a wrench slipped and I put a nasty gash in my finger requiring about 9 stitches--went to the emergency room of a hospital in Canada--let them know I did not have OHIP and would pay for it--they stitched me up, complete with a tetanus shot, and charged me $103 Cdn for the treatment. And then they apologized for it being so much!!!<br />I laughed, and told them there was absolutely no way they could operate an emergency room, with a doctor on call, and provide all of those services, for $70 US.<br />In Ontario, where the NDP leader Bob Ray almost put the province into bankruptcy (their bond rating to finance the debt went down into the B's)there has been a big push to put a lid on taxes. Enough is enough. Not sure they have been successful, but there is movement that direction.<br />Canada does a lot of goofy things, not the least of which is attempting to subside obsolete businesses, keeping new competitors out, on the ptretense of saving jobs. The sad part is that time and again, the required subsidies get so great that even the government cannot afford them, and then the business goes under. And the public outcry is typically that the government did not do enough to save the jobs!<br />It always amazed me!
 
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