Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Maybe that too, but in every shallow well I've ever seen, including the one in our lake place there is a check valve.

Must be belt and suspenders....or overkill
Are you claiming that there is NOT a foot valve as well?
Priming would be near impossible....until you'd filled the well right to the pump....
The prime inlet would also need to be on the well side of the check valve.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

But not with a jet pump.
There are a lot of things that will cause a jet pump to cycle and run on....and burn out if unattended.
It is wise practice to leave it off when you are away.

I agree it is good to leave it off - but once again - that is the type of pressure switch that we run on our system and every modern shallow system I've seen uses that type of switch so that if the well goes dry or something fails on the input side that the pump will not run.

 

[jkust]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Been doing this 30+ years and have two pieces of advice:
1) get a land line installed. Your big risk is electrical outage which takes out all the heating that you've described. A land line is more reliable in this situation.
2) find out why the pump breaker is supposed to stay on no matter what...and deal with it.
That is a time bomb waiting to go off. I'd never dream of leaving my place with the pump turned on.

You also need to sort out the electric heaters as they are your back-up. If necessary, get an electrician in to either calibrate the built in t'stats or install more user-friendly wall mounts.
Same with your plumbing. Get a plumber in to make sure that the system can be 100% drained, and make any necessary adjustments if it can't.

Ok, good thought. I'm going to call and see if they have a landline option up there for these purposes. I can't imagine this isn't a very common thing to have to deal with. Given it is an electric co op I'm imagining when there is a power line down, they aren't as fast to fix it as they are here in town.

Will do some research on the pump breaker.

As to the electric heaters, I wished the house was drywall wall and not wood so I could run some wall thermostats. As it is I can't get at the wires as they are behind the walls.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Must be belt and suspenders....or overkill
Are you claiming that there is NOT a foot valve as well?
Priming would be near impossible....until you'd filled the well right to the pump....
The prime inlet would also need to be on the well side of the check valve.

No idea if there is a foot valve - I'd have to bust a foot of cement to find out.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Maybe that too, but in every shallow well I've ever seen, including the one in our lake place there is a check valve.

This is where ours is:
View attachment 217278

OK, is that the water level right there? That's only a couple of feet from the check valve.
Big difference from a 20+ foot depth.....

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

OK, is that the water level right there? That's only a couple of feet from the check valve.
Big difference from a 20+ foot depth.....

I'd say that the water depth would be 15-20 feet below there - that is about where the lake level is in relation to that cement floor

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Only if you have a really crappy pressure switch/contactor. Any decent pressure switch fails the pump out at under 5 psi and requires you to hold the contact lever to bring pressure up in the system before it'll latch in and run the pump automatically.

thanks for this info...

I'm only familiar with pump styles we use in Colorado (300+' deep, most modern one are 600+') while most of the newer ones have a pressure switch, often older ones don't. Our style systems need head pressure to prime and rely on the well casing being filled with water. Have seen a few burn out over the years due to freeze ups/run out of water. I suggested a well guy as a "I want to know what I have?" precautionary/maintenance type call...

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

thanks for this info...

I'm only familiar with pump styles we use in Colorado (300+' deep, most modern one are 600+') while most of the newer ones have a pressure switch, often older ones don't. Our style systems need head pressure to prime and rely on the well casing being filled with water. Have seen a few burn out over the years due to freeze ups/run out of water. I suggested a well guy as a "I want to know what I have?" precautionary/maintenance type call...

That is the type of well I have in my house - deep well with in well pump. Although it also has a pressure switch on it.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

I'd say that the water depth would be 15-20 feet below there - that is about where the lake level is in relation to that cement floor

Then you have a foot valve on the end of your suction line....or you'd need to constantly prime it.
Are you sure that is a check valve?
How do you prime your system with that layout?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Then you have a foot valve on the end of your suction line....or you'd need to constantly prime it.
Are you sure that is a check valve?
How do you prime your system with that layout?

Same way I posted above:
The pump has to have a prime, so when you replace it or open the system then you need to open up the priming port on top the pump - usually a cap on a T fitting that goes into the pump - then you pour water into the pump to fill the pump and the top of the check valve. At that point it is primed and then you replace the cap and turn the pump on.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Same way I posted above:
The pump has to have a prime, so when you replace it or open the system then you need to open up the priming port on top the pump - usually a cap on a T fitting that goes into the pump - then you pour water into the pump to fill the pump and the top of the check valve. At that point it is primed and then you replace the cap and turn the pump on.

????

Then how do you get water into the pipe below the check valve?
Are you 100% sure that IS a check valve?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

????

Then how do you get water into the pipe below the check valve?
Are you 100% sure that IS a check valve?

Pretty sure that is what the tag on the side says. I've only had to prime the pump once - after I replaced the pressure tank last year. Didn't take anything more than pouring the water into the pump. As for what is going on below that cement - no idea. I'm assuming the depth based on the position of the house in relation to the lake. Lake is at snow level bottom of this picture. Pump is in basement of house (not the boat house)

 

[jkust]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Pretty sure that is what the tag on the side says. I've only had to prime the pump once - after I replaced the pressure tank last year. Didn't take anything more than pouring the water into the pump. As for what is going on below that cement - no idea. I'm assuming the depth based on the position of the house in relation to the lake. Lake is at snow level bottom of this picture. Pump is in basement of house (not the boat house)
View attachment 217280

That's a great looking place. What lake are they on?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Pretty sure that is what the tag on the side says. I've only had to prime the pump once - after I replaced the pressure tank last year. Didn't take anything more than pouring the water into the pump. As for what is going on below that cement - no idea. I'm assuming the depth based on the position of the house in relation to the lake. Lake is at snow level bottom of this picture. Pump is in basement of house (not the boat house)
View attachment 217280

Could you get the suction pipe out if you have to?

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Could you get the suction pipe out if you have to?

With a jackhammer

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

That's a great looking place. What lake are they on?

Wapogasset near Amery

 

[nwcove]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

i have a simple little set up at one of my work places. its an auto dialer ( "guard it" mfg'd by rayco...or maybe raycor) with 4, 4-20 ma inputs. it uses a landline but i think it could be adapted to cell. one of the inputs is connected to a $15 everyday thermostat that is set at 50f. if the furnace fails, and the temp falls below 50, the dialer calls my cell.....if i dont acknowledge the alarm....it calls my house....and keeps rotating through all the numbers programmed in until the alarm gets acknowledged or the issue corrects itself. it has an internal battery backup, but a ups would be a good addition in your situation. ( any system would probably lower your insurance rates significantly).

 

[hungupthespikes]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

As mentioned, you can have as many thermostats as your comfortable with, so add an old style mercury set low for a back-up if you don't trust the new one.

Sure sounds like your a good candidate for a home power back-up unit (generator).
The prices are good if looking for just propane heat and the water pump.

2-3 grand is a lot to layout, but your good for years. Dropping everything to run up to the lake home for a false alarm, or getting there too late to stop the damage???

Monitoring is good, but does nothing about addressing the problem, a power back-up does, even if you can't get there due to weather..etc...


Just another option to look at.
huts

 

[jkust]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

As mentioned, you can have as many thermostats as your comfortable with, so add an old style mercury set low for a back-up if you don't trust the new one.

Sure sounds like your a good candidate for a home power back-up unit (generator).
The prices are good if looking for just propane heat and the water pump.

2-3 grand is a lot to layout, but your good for years. Dropping everything to run up to the lake home for a false alarm, or getting there too late to stop the damage???

Monitoring is good, but does nothing about addressing the problem, a power back-up does, even if you can't get there due to weather..etc...


Just another option to look at.
huts

Good point on running 2 hours and 15 minutes for a false alarm. Funny thing is the thermostat that I replaced was the old mercury style since it would read the temperature at least 10 degrees warmer than it was not telling the furnace to turn on plus the heat anticipator was out of adjustment and so the furnace, while we were there using it, would turn on and off constantly one after another. I'd love a generator system but I already spend the equivalent of 200 of those systems this year on charity related expenses and so my disposable cash is now pretty much gone.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Anybody ever use a freeze alarm for a vacation home?

Good point on running 2 hours and 15 minutes for a false alarm. .

Given that =>

Good thoughts. One issue is that my wife has made the decision to keep it open all year and so I can't fight that battle so am trying to work with it. So now it is about prevention and mitigation.

Maybe you could delegate a lot of that false-alarm response as a shared responsibility?...