Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

[Mark42]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

Mark

Actually many boats do have those problems when new, for decades there was no engineering or design done on hulls, it was just what the guy who owned the shop (boat company) thought might work. These poor designs stayed in production for years with little or no changes. As availible HP increased the problems became more evident and tabs and fins got more popular. You would be amazed at how far out of true a new hull mold can be.

I can easily see that being the case with boats built in the 60 and 70's. But in the last 20 years, with CAD and big corporations like Brunswick building boats, you can be sure that they are thoroughly field tested before going to market.

But then again, I could be wrong...

 

[sickwilly]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

As best I can tell, my Stingray's hull was built to do its best at higher speeds -- and built quite well for this purpose. Thus, it is not a great boat stock for holding plane at 17-18 MPH, where I want it to hold a good plane for teaching the kids to ski, and wakeboard. With a few mods, it does darn good at this. One of those options is a foil. Smart tabs are another. Prop pitch is also a tweak. I have found the tweaks that find the best possible current sweet spot for what I want out of this boat -- and am using a foil to achieve this.

God love boats and boating, and all the things we can add, change, tinker with, etc. Cars just aren't this fun to play with anymore. Boating is a great hobby, in part because of the great differences between boats, and the things we can play with.

I don't get why this topic has to get so darn heated. Its not like us foil users vote for one party and y'all tabs user a different one!

I will never discuss religion or debate anyone who was once not religious and later got "saved" later in life, as they seem so personally invested in "winning", as if their self-esteem is dependent on getting others to see things as they do. I am about to come to the same conclusion about reading and entering any thread that has the word foil or tabs in it!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

As best I can tell, my Stingray's hull was built to do its best at higher speeds -- and built quite well for this purpose. Thus, it is not a great boat stock for holding plane at 17-18 MPH, where I want it to hold a good plane for teaching the kids to ski, and wakeboard. With a few mods, it does darn good at this. One of those options is a foil. Smart tabs are another. Prop pitch is also a tweak. I have found the tweaks that find the best possible current sweet spot for what I want out of this boat -- and am using a foil to achieve this.
.....

Thats a good point. The more specialized a boat becomes, the more it excels in one area, and suffers in some other. Not by design flaw, but by design. The high speed boat is a good example where an add on can make up for deficiencies in low speed performance. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[sunbird 18]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

All boat designs are a compromise. There is no perfect boat for every application. A few simple mods can help with gaining performance in a selected area though.

 

[dave11]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

Dave11;

Why would you not want to put any type of trim tabs on this boat?

In reading your post you have invested in an SE300 Hydrofoil plus the special clamping unit at about $100.00 I'm guessing, and now looking at another $200. to $300. for a four bladed prop to facilitate better acceleration.

Sounds like a lot of money to get half the job done!

Do you get your money back if you are not satisfied with the performance?

To preface this response, I am extremely happy with my boat as it is now. All I am doing is screwing around and tweaking things. It is a small boat. Your figures for the SE Sport are about right. I will get around to contacting Prop Gods to try out a few props, since that is a more expensive option.

I know everybody here loves Smart Tabs. If they accomplish what you want, great. For the way I use my boat, they would be a terrible detriment. I want something I can control. Adjustable trim tabs would be gross overkill and be more of an aggravation that a help to me. The primary reason for the HF is to be able to stay on plane at a lower speed. A secondary use will be to bring the bow down for a better ride in a chop. I could care less about hole shot, acceleration, or top speed.

Will the HF or 4 blade prop do what I want? I guess I will find out. I know that Smart Tabs, and yes I know how good the product is and how customer oriented they are, will not be a solution to the changes I am looking for.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

Mark

I?ve seen CNC cut molds be 2" out of true from one side to other, plus the products used to make the plug, molds and finished hulls can all shrink and warp during and after the curing process, this it happens more times than not.

Two hulls from the same mold can perform differently, two identical model cars can handle or perform differently and production tolerances are much tighter in that industry.

As far as testing before production starts, well sometimes it does happen and sometimes it doesn't. For a new design typically the first hull out of the mold gets tested, but unless it's a terrible design, production starts immediately. If there are serious flaws they try to modify the mold to get them into the acceptable range, but a new design and mold can cost a fortune and may delay the release of the new model for almost a year, so many times they just build them and make the changes on the next set of molds.

Then you have all the combinations of motors, props, HP, placement of gear, weight of passengers, etc, this can make a great design perform poorly.

I have foil on one of my boat to help eliminate ventilation when accelerating and it works great for that. I can raise the motor higher resulting in a higher top speed, better MPG and faster hole shot. Tabs can?t do that.

 

[Nico2112]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

...I don't get why this topic has to get so darn heated. Its not like us foil users vote for one party and y'all tabs user a different one!

I will never discuss religion or debate anyone who was once not religious and later got "saved" later in life, as they seem so personally invested in "winning", as if their self-esteem is dependent on getting others to see things as they do. I am about to come to the same conclusion about reading and entering any thread that has the word foil or tabs in it!

I totally agree with you

 

[Mark42]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

Mark

I?ve seen CNC cut molds be 2" out of true from one side to other, plus the products used to make the plug, molds and finished hulls can all shrink and warp during and after the curing process, this it happens more times than not.

Two hulls from the same mold can perform differently, two identical model cars can handle or perform differently and production tolerances are much tighter in that industry.

As far as testing before production starts, well sometimes it does happen and sometimes it doesn't. For a new design typically the first hull out of the mold gets tested, but unless it's a terrible design, production starts immediately. If there are serious flaws they try to modify the mold to get them into the acceptable range, but a new design and mold can cost a fortune and may delay the release of the new model for almost a year, so many times they just build them and make the changes on the next set of molds.

Then you have all the combinations of motors, props, HP, placement of gear, weight of passengers, etc, this can make a great design perform poorly.

I have foil on one of my boat to help eliminate ventilation when accelerating and it works great for that. I can raise the motor higher resulting in a higher top speed, better MPG and faster hole shot. Tabs can?t do that.

That is rather disheartening to hear. I don't doubt you for a minute. Why do you suppose these kind of manufacturing flaws are not played up more in the boat review magazines and forums? I would think it is important to know who manufactures to tight tolerances and who is sloppy. What about the corporate ratings like ISO and such?

I see the videos of boats being made by robotic assembly machines, and it gives the impression that everything would be quality construction. Guess not.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Another satisfied HYDROFOIL customer!

Mark

Part of the reason for stuff that may not be well tested, or is build off kilter is that the boat industry just isn't that big and there's not enough money in it to support that kind of research, technology and R&D.
Plus it all relies on humans to set everything up, from the first CNC cutting of the mold, to laying the glass in the hull, even the robots are set up by people. If the robot is programmed wrong, then every part is wrong.

One thing that every glass shop fights is shrinkage, resin shrinks when it cures and different resins will shrink at different rates, they also shrink more or less depending on the temperature. A boat made in the cold part of the winter will shrink at a different rate than one made in the heat of the summer, so one boat could have a perfect hull and the next one may have a hook in it.

Most of the time boat reviews? don?t get into details like that, it would be too difficult and time consuming to try and track down a possible issue that may, or may not, be noticeable.