Another GFI question

[Mark42]

Re: Another GFI question

Make sure you buy the right capacity GFI outlet for the bathroom. Check the breaker rating for 15 or 20 amp. GFI outlets come in 15 and 20 amp size. The breaker and the GFI need to match amperage.<br /><br />New homes are being wired with 20amp service to the bath because of the load. Hair driers, fans, heat lamps, towel warmers, etc all tend to overload 15amp service.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: Another GFI question

Heytown, the vanity is ancient, and has a single 110v outlet in the top lightbar. Totally custom. It's not a standard outlet that I can just swap out. The garage is a standard outlet and will be cake. <br /><br />I'm going to see what I can do with it tonight, take a better look at the electrical in the bathroom.<br /><br />Thanks!

 

[BW23]

Re: Another GFI question

Depending on the age of the home....<br /><br />GFI's require a "Hot, Neutral and ground" (3wires)<br />to operate properly.<br /><br />Some older homes on have 2 wire services.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another GFI question

i see your need for a gfi breaker in the bath.. since it's in the lite..<br /><br />most inspectors wont except a 'lite bar w/receptical outlet'.. cause it's not considered a real outlet but a lite with a receptical in it.. <br /><br />that bein' said .. code says ( an gin' WAY back ) all rooms that have a sink must have a gfi receptical AJASENT to the sink..<br /><br />but since your house is so old,, this code does not pertain .. <br /><br />maybe just remove the lite an replace with a non- receptical lite.. <br /><br />no plug = no foul..

 

[MrBill]

Re: Another GFI question

The latest codes go beyond GFI to the new fault circuitry, but to answer the original question, yes, there are GFI breakers for virtually all brands. It avoids the problem of incorrectly installing GFI outlets and not protecting downstream outlets. I've used them for years and three years ago solved the same type problem that you are faced with in a 40 year old property. "GFI" breakers cost about $40.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: Another GFI question

Looked at it again, and I'm either going to have to remove the outlet or use the breaker. Walls are plaster on planking and I'll be damned if I'm going to get involved in that mess of installing an outlet in the wall there. <br /><br />Maybe I should call Bob Vila?

 

[aspeck]

Re: Another GFI question

I believe the new code in PA says ACFI's have to be installed in the bedrooms. The inspector in our area has told a few contractors to install them for the inspection and then remove them and replace with regular breakers. Says no consumer will be happy with them, they will break every time you plug in, or remove a "hot" plug (one that the appliance is switched on). They are costly and no fun at all!

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: Another GFI question

Well, some bad news and some good news. <br /><br />The bad news is that nobody, and I mean nobody, has a 15A SquareD Homeline GFI Breaker. I'm told they were recalled and everyone is waiting on new ones. <br /><br />The good news is I don't need it. As I said the garage is cake, already a standard socket. The bathroom was tricky. However, I looked around and found something I didn't know about the setup. I have a SInk with a cabinet underneath it and a mirror/lightbar/outlet above it. Well, under the sink inside the cabinet there's an outlet in the wall. There's a wire that plugs into this outlet, goes into the wall and up to the vanity. THere's also a second wire that plugs into the second recepticle that actually goes to another outlet on the side of the cabinet that I never realized was there. Anyway, all I need to do is install a regular GFI outlet there.<br /><br />The wiring is 2-wire, but the GFI I purchased says it will work with a 2 or 3 wire cable, so I think I'm good. Just need to install it and test it to make sure. <br /><br /><br />Thanks for all the help again!

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another GFI question

bad news.. if'n your wiring has no ground/system.. you can't install a '3-prong/grounded receptical.. only can install a 2-prong/ungrounded receptical..<br /><br />an i've never seen/heard of a 2-prong GFI..<br /><br />but there's some good news tho.. <br /><br />if'n you can run/fish a piece of bare # 12 wire to >> the COLD water pipe from the GFI box ( bring wire out of wall to the exposed cold water pipe under sink an attach to said pipe with a common electrical 'water pipe ground clamp' you'd be good to go.. <br /><br /><br />or if you can't fish inside the wall ,, bring a # 10 bare copper wire down the wall to just above the baseboard.. poke said wire out .. an run it surface ( staple-ing to the baseboard ) to the sink an clamp it..

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Another GFI question

According to the National Electrical Code, you dont need a ground wire for a GFI to work correctly, what is commonly done on old 2 wire systems that want to use a 3 prong plug is to simply add a GFI receptical there and it is fully legal. <br /><br />The ground in a 3 wire is for protection of persons, a GFI monitors current between the hot leg and the nuetral wire, if there is a problem between the 2 legs it shuts down instantly, theres no need for a ground wire.<br /><br />Bottom line is the easiest way to change your recepts from the old 2 prong to a 3 prong is to install a GFI recept.<br /><br />Your good to go Stiff <br /><br />-John

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Another GFI question

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another GFI question

the GFI doesn't need a ground to work ..this is true..<br /><br />3 different times in 2 different states,, the inspector MADE me run a ground wire to the water pipe as per to pass inspection..<br /><br />told all 3 inspectors ..no need for ground..<br /><br />they said perbatum,, 3 wire outlet for 3 wire systems..do it or it don't pass..

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Another GFI question

According to the NEC you dont need a ground wire for a GFI.<br /><br />Are you sure those were GFI recepts you had? At that point you grab your NEC code book and show them the code. <br /><br />Also the code may have changed since then, not sure when you had those run ins but maybe it wasnt legal at that point in time.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Another GFI question

they said perbatum,, 3 wire outlet for 3 wire systems..do it or it don't pass..<br />

Think of the inspector as your wife... if she aint happy... aint nobody happy... oh, and did I mention your inspection won't pass!

 

[dhammann]

Re: Another GFI question

It doesn't matter what the NEC says.....the final jurisdiction is up to the inspector...he has the final say.....right or wrong....he is GOD....obey,obey,obey!!!

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another GFI question

Steve,<br />Just FYI, whoever told you the Square D GFI breakers were recalled is full of it. Only the AFI breakers were recalled in both QO and Homeline.<br /><br />Did you get it fixed? If you have trouble locating the breaker, let me know. I'm sure you could find one on the net. See if you have a Crescent Electric or Graybar near you. Both are Square D distributors.

 

[chuckz]

Re: Another GFI question

GFI, ground fault interupt. How can a GFI work in an ungrouded two wire system? I beleive the inspectors were right and the code is wrong.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another GFI question

easy..<br /><br /> the gfi works on 50 mili-amp differance between the black ( hot ) wire an the white ( neutral/return ) wire..<br /><br />if there's a differance of 50 miliamps the gfi trips..<br /><br />example:: what flow up/thru to the ( say ) litebulb,,, must flow back,,EXACTLY.. <br /><br />if'n there's a 50 mil diff,, the differance is/must be flowin' somewhere else .. like your body an heart..<br /><br />the ground wire never comes in-play..

 

[Indymike]

Re: Another GFI question

Hey crab thats 5 milliamps. If you get 50 mA your dead.

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Another GFI question

The code is wrong eh? Thats more than a bit hilarious! <br /><br />And yes, as stated in article 90 the local jurisdiction having authority has final say, however most base their judgments upon code......