A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

FSHKPR · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

I should of clarified in my post that i would not recomend that. my wife and have been very lucky. we tried to teach both of our kids to either abstain or use protection. my daughter was 27 before she had her first child and my son was 25 so atleast they listened to one thing we taught them. Jtexas i wish you luck and i think you are handling the situation in the right the way too.

jimchere · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

JTexas, I can only try to understand your problem, it is one I cannot experience. Myself and wife have tried to have kids for years, with mucho dinero invested in infertility treatments producing at best miscarriaged twins at 3 months. I'm not advertising..maybe I am..such a tough topic and I can only be blunt...if "it happened" and adoption is needed, you would be very comfortable placing the child in my family. If such is considered, very relevant meetings and documentation can be provided. We have completed all adoption home studies and I have family in TX that I wouldn't mind seeing too. Jim

Kenneth Brown · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Jtexas- While I feel your pain you are incorrect on the legalities. She is of age to consent to sex. He being 17 is legal also. If he was 18 and she 16 it would be illegal. He has to be OVER the age of 17 or theere has to be more than THREE years difference in age. He probably doesn't realize this and that is a good thing. I think you are doing a great job of handling this. I hope that if I am ever in your shoes I can do as well. Here is the penal codes wording on it, its about 1/4 way down the section.

KRS · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Buying condoms??? Taking girls for injections??? Wear a patch??? You CAN put bars on the windows, you CAN control her actions. Good grief, parenting is hard, but necessary, you're not here to be her friend or his buddy... be the parent.

snapperbait · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

We can't cuff 'em & put bars on the windows.

Says who?

I'd tell em' "WATCH ME!"...

jtexas · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

yikes - thanks, Kenneth. knowlege is power. I do appreciate the comments. I won't dispute that a person can physically compel a 15 yr old to comply with rules. But this child comes from a home where anger and physical force compensated for a lack of maturity, discipline and just plain good sense. So we're working on less "physical" alternatives. Professional counseling for sure. She may end up spending some quality time with her grandparents, 200 miles from here. Good people, and willing - she lived there a few months before coming to us - but elderly, & Grandmom confined to a wheelchair. I shudder to think of them having to raise a "problem" child at their stage of life. It's tempting to try & get inside her head - like maybe deep down she believes that we'll give up & abandon her like her parents did, and she's determined to prove her theory. 'Course that's probly just a bunch of psychobabble - maybe she's just more rebellious than others her age. In most respects she's like the teenaged kids of our friends. and after all, how many of us never ever did anything we weren't supposed to that our parents didn't know about? It's their job - if parents & teens didn't drive each other crazy, they might never move out the house - and nobody wants that, right?

DJ · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

What is this fallacy that we've bought into that a certain age makes one an adult? I know eighteen year olds that can't tie their own shoes. I also know some who are successful business people and stand up citizens. The job of a parent is to be just that until they are ready to launch on their own. Each person has a different time when they are ready to go.

You CAN put bars on the windows, you CAN control her actions. Good grief, parenting is hard, but necessary, you're not here to be her friend or his buddy... be the parent.

I agree totally.

jtexas · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Originally posted by DJ: What is this fallacy that we've bought into that a certain age makes one an adult?

From my perspective, it's about what I can do and what I can't do within the law.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You CAN put bars on the windows, you CAN control her actions. Good grief, parenting is hard, but necessary, you're not here to be her friend or his buddy... be the parent. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I agree totally.

I can tell you feel strongly about it, DJ, and I respect that. Trust me, she don't consider us "friends" or "buddies" right now. In fact, she's been grounded for the last couple weeks for bad grades. Turns out, we needed a baby-sitter. The wife doesn't work outside the home, other than as PTA president and some general "Church Lady" type stuff. She was at the younger one's track meet yesterday afternoon. We've been consistent with discipline, careful to set a good example of appropriate behavior, always made it clear that she's responsible for her own actions, had proactive discussions about drug use and abstinence. And honestly, we don't "give in" to tantrums or hissyfits or dramatic displays of hysteria. Her 7th-grade sister is thriving but this one is really struggling. You got to gradually loosen the drag and let 'em take some line out, eventually, and let 'em practice using their own judgement, and sometimes they disappoint. FYI, her "cycle" started today, so that's one bullet dodged. thanks for the support.

deputydawg · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

In this state the legal age for consent is 16. It is not illegal until one is over the age 18 and the other under the age 16. If the two are "in love" then the majority of the time the courts will convict on contributing to the delinquency of a minor, a small fine or probation to the court. I have dealt with families in your exact situation many times. Sometimes it is a need for acceptance either acceptance into their teen world, acceptance and breaking into what they see as "adulthood". Some are seeking what they see as undying love, which in their mind is what a baby gives them. A few are seeking attention. Being pregnant gives them attention. Then carrying a baby is attention. Everyone knows that when you carry a baby around everyone stops and looks at the baby or talks about the baby. In young teen girls I have seen a lot of them as crazy as it sounds to an adult looking to hang onto the love they feel at the begining of their relationship with the boyfriend. They feel that what they see as love between them is so wonderful that they never want to lose it. They then convince themselves that a baby will seel the bond so to speek and give them something great to share. They both see a baby as something like a puppy that they can sit around and be happy playing with, watching grow, teaching, whatever. The one thing MOST have in common is that they have parents that love them and have done everything they can for them. I hear the so called experts saying that kids wanting babies is to make up for a lack of love, not true. Usually it is that they have no idea what they are asking for. If they would be willing to participate in an experiement, try to find one of the babies like the early childhood classes at some high schools have. Have them care for one of these mechanical babies for a week together. If you don't know, these babies have pre-programmed reactions like a real baby would. Some nights they cry every 10 minutes like a baby, some they sleep an hour then stay awake for hours. To quiet them you need to rock them until the programming lets them sleep, usually early morning. They also wake to noise, hunger etc just like a baby. The newer ones have sensors in them that record the activity from rocking and loving touches to shaking, food etc. The older ones had an egg in the head that would break if the baby is mis-treated. Face it though, being the parents you will always be wrong on this. Pride may never allow them to admit their mistake. Try to help her see the practical side of a baby now, costs, sleep loss, illness, injuries. The only way out is for them to see the practical side of this on their own. They need to see on their own that is would be better to wait. Talking to other mothers in their situation might help, but probably not. They will simply say "that will not be me, I am different". Good luck to you. I am not looking forward to my girls teen years!

aspeck · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

This email came today - thought you might find it interesting, jtex. (By the way, I am agreeing with Snapper and DJ here. Yes, there are special considerations and circumstances, but "allowing" what you feel is wrong should not be one of them. What message are you sending then? If you don't like what the authorities say, do something really outlandish, and refer back to your miserable childhood, and you will get what you want in the end?) The Right Recipe - February 05, 2005 Wanting to please and surprise her parents, young Karen decided to bake a batch of cookies. She paged through mom's recipe book excitedly looking for something that mom and dad would find special. "Ah! Here is just the right one!" Karen exclaimed as she quickly scanned the list of ingredients. Unfortunately, Karen looked too rapidly since, by time she came to one of the most necessary ingredients, two cups of apple sauce, she soon learned they had none. "Oh dear!" she thought, "Now what should I do?" Karen scratched her head a moment then began searching the kitchen frantically for a convenient substitute. Her eyes immediately fell upon the large bottle of apple cider vinegar mom had in the 'fridge. Karen immediately went back to work; mixing, baking and cooling the special treat she had prepared for her parents. After a nice spaghetti and meatballs dinner, Karen ran to the cabinet, grabbed her plate of cookies, and set them before her family with a huge ear to ear smile. Of course, they eagerly dug in as they were very pleased with their daughter's thoughtfulness. In an instant, smiles turned to odd-looking grimaces. When mother spit her bite out in to her napkin, Karen knew something was terribly wrong. Karen went on to explain how she didn't have all the proper ingredients so replaced one for another. "I guess it didn't turn out quite as I expected," she said quietly as she stared down at floor. In similar manor, sin is a wrongful and bitter ingredient that may exist in our own lives. We may have the best of intentions, but when we try to mix evil with good, and corruption with righteousness, the end result is poisonous, not only our spiritual welfare, but emotional and oftentimes, our physical bodies, as well. God calls us to purity, so we must remove the rancid effect of sin from our lives by calling on the Lord for forgiveness within the spirit of repentance. That, my dear friends, is the right recipe for a brand new start in the family of Christ! Contributed by Melanie Schurr © 2005 Melanie Schurr

Johnshan1 · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

All I have to say is WOW I am 22 years old and I never realized how well off I am. I will be married in December to my high school sweetheart, I have a college degree and already have a well established income, I have not missed a day of work in as long as I can remember. Do you know why? I have parents who didnt let me push them around and I was taught respect and the value of life at an early age. I am sorry but you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for the way your children act, as someone said its called parenting and too many parents let their children push them around. I would say maybe I am old fashioned, but I was there not very long ago and I am shocked at the maturity level some of you have spoke of. Sorry if this is harsh, just my feelings. -John

DJ · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

jtexas, My thoughts were not always directed at your particular situation. There were some other comments that brought out my reactions and comments. As a matter of fact, I gathered from your original post that you were dealing with the situation in an informed and deliberate matter.

one more cast · Feb 4, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

I made a big mistake when I was 17 and had a daughter at 18. When all my friends were going to college, out having fun and spending all their money on nice toys. I was trying to raise a child. Our apartment was a pile of crap because thats all we could afford, our car was a piece of crap because thats all we could afford, our cloths were old and worn because we couldn't afford new ones. We got on our feet after awhile but it was tough. You need to set down and have a serious talk with these kids. They have no idea how hard and expensive raising a child is.

Kenneth Brown · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Originally posted by Johnshan1: All I have to say is WOW I am 22 years old and I never realized how well off I am. I will be married in December to my high school sweetheart, I have a college degree and already have a well established income, I have not missed a day of work in as long as I can remember. Do you know why? I have parents who didnt let me push them around and I was taught respect and the value of life at an early age. I am sorry but you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for the way your children act, as someone said its called parenting and too many parents let their children push them around. I would say maybe I am old fashioned, but I was there not very long ago and I am shocked at the maturity level some of you have spoke of. Sorry if this is harsh, just my feelings. -John

Well John, you are kinda right. The thing is is you really have no idea what the hell you are talking about because you have no children. I am 30, with a 9 and a 3 year old. I thought I knew everything once too. Wait till you have children of your own before you right a book about raising them. Jtexas is doing a great job TRYING to be a parent. All kids are different. There was a quote on this site that said something to the effect of "When they grow up and do well don't think for one minute you had a damn thing to do with it". Thats extremely true. I grew up with an abusive alcoholic drug addict father. He never had the same job for more than 6 months even though he was very smart. My brother missed most of dads years that way. I have had my job for 11 years, don't beat the wife or kids, drink very little and no drugs. My brother who missed most of that is turning into an alcoholic, has anger management problems, is divorced, and works for slighly more than minimum wage. Same house, same parents, and I got the "bad" part of it while he got the good part. Kids do there own thing regardless of what the parents do. Its our job as parents to do the best we can to steer them in the right direction and hope for the best.

DJ · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Kenneth Brown wrote:

Well John, you are kinda right. The thing is is you really have no idea what the hell you are talking about because you have no children.

Kids do there own thing regardless of what the parents do.

To both statements, I would say "that's a load". To quote one, John is 22 years old, he was recently at that age, in todays environment. To quote two, I have never heard of anything more ridiculous. "hope for the best"?. We, as parents have to have a higher standard than that. I respected and still do resepct my parents (which I have been chastised for on this board before) that's why I stayed out of trouble.

Johnshan1 · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Well I am sorry if I came across as an almighty know it all, I was simply trying to explain the fact that I am just 22 years old and I didnt get the way I am from my parents "hoping for the best" when they brought me up. Parents can influence their children more then they realize, I think some tend to give up too easily. Just my thoughts, again sorry for being harsh. -John

kenimpzoom · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

DJ are you telling me your parents had absolute control over every thing you did when you were 16? My parents were strick, had an 11 pm curfew, no sleepovers, etc, but I still could have done a lot of stuff. Luckily I wasnt stupid. Ken

kd6nem · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

Kids growth into adulthood is influence in a number of ways. Peers, school, the media, maybe church, and parents. Parents need to realize that they are by far the most influential. Important to keep the lines of communication open, which can be tough. Yes, as a matter of fact they do have their own personalities, and they do make their own choices. Failing to allow them their choices is to condemn them to never really grow up. They have to learn for themselves how to be responsible by feeling the consequences of both success and failure. As parents we try to allow this to happen in a constructive, non-harmful way which will not haunt them later in life. No parent ever has complete control as much as they'd like to, and no parent lacks serious influence despite the willingness of a few to throw up their hands whenever the going gets a little rough. (And yes it can get more than a little rough at times!) In a way, this parenting thing is a partnership between the kid and parent(s). But we need to remember that we are the senior partner, and it will normally go better if they take our experience seriously. JTex, I find no fault in how you've handled it thus far. Please try to not crucify yourself for this- your daughter made the stupid choice not you. I know it still hurts, though. Please do not give in and just accept that "kids will be kids" and endorse this by providing a means to continue. She may continue anyway, but you do not need to be party to this. And if she wants to get pregnant she will despite offering contraception. Even might despite using it. There is a outstanding resource I didn't notice anyone mention- a Crisis Pregnancy Center. Many are just called "pregnancy help center" of some sort. Be sure to check it out ahead of time to make sure it is not an abortion clinic or related to Planned Parenthood since they really should be called "planned abortions" or something to that effect. These Crisis pregancy centers offer free counselling to the young women and sometimes even the young man. They give a good dose of reality coated with genuine concern and christian love. Sometimes they operate actual medical clinics as well. Most all have nurses and other medical professionals available on staff. Even if your daughter is not pregnant these folks will be happy to help. Sometimes hearing that dose of reality from someone outside the situation can have the impact needed to get the message home. Wishing you folks all the best, BP Edit: By the way, yes I do have a couple teens (boy and girl)and a 9 year old. We've been blessed to not (Yet anyway) have any major blow-ups like this. But I do know they will make their own choices, so we keep praying. When the youngest hits 30 maybe we'll sigh a huge sigh of relief and congratulate ourselves for being such wonderful parents- or more realistically that we were very fortunate parents. I can only hope!

Kenneth Brown · Feb 5, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

I'm only 8 years older DJ. Since you don't believe in hoping for the best do you hope for the worst? If you read what I said you might understand it better. What I said was "Its our job as parents to do the best we can to steer them in the right direction and hope for the best." Always do your best, if its not good enough at least you done your best. If you never instill any discipline then you do get what you deserve, while the kids get the short end of the stick. All of the things I said about my father are true. Whenever I was 13 it all stopped. He quit everything and changed. He still has a hard time working for other people but otherwise he does great. He taught me the value of a dollar; I had to work for it. He taught me respect; I do what I am told or I pay the price. He ended up being a great dad, only thing was is I was halfway grown when he decided to grow up. I was at a rebelloius stage and we clashed again. As I got closer to being a true adult I realized that he now had my best interests at heart. Jtexas has his daughters best interests at heart and that is the best thing she has going. John- I apologize too. I didn't mean to flame as hard as I did. I have a severe dislike for monday morning quarterbacking. You are right also. You didn;t get the way you are by your parents hoping for the best. You became that way becasue they did the best they could do to steer you in the right direction, and you accepted it. Some kids never do. A good friend of my parents is about 50 now. He came from a great home. Dad made plenty of money. Mom stayed home. Both parents well liked in the community. Involved in sports and other activities growing up. He decided that he would rather smoke and sell dope than do the right thing. His parents did everything they could to help the guy. After he got in trouble they put him in a treatment facility, paid out of pocket. He didn't learn. Last time I seen him was about 6 years ago. He had just gotten out of prison for the 5th time. I imagine he's back in or dead. Some just don't conform.

jtexas · Feb 7, 2005

Re: A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

I am sorry but you guys have no one to blame but yourselves for the way your children act, as someone said its called parenting and too many parents let their children push them around.

johnshan1, that attitude is a bit harsh, but hang on to it a little bit longer. It might serve you well at some point.

Parents can influence their children more then they realize...

You got that right! Your kids will notice everything (literally) you do, and the things you do have more influence than your words. In particular, not whether you make mistakes, but how you handle yourself when it happens.

I didnt get the way I am from my parents "hoping for the best" when they brought me up.

Yes and no; when you were facing those tough decisions, the values you got from them were in your head, but they were at home "hoping for the best." Okay, maybe with some kids you have enough confidence that you don't have to hope. But usually I think there's probably some hoping involved. One thing I've noticed, lots and lots of "normal" families have several successful (define it how you will) offspring, and one who just goes the wrong way. And some of those people on the Springer show have kids who somehow see through the BS and manage by the grace of God to become productive members of society and effective parents.

A true story of two teenagers who believe their own fantasy

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