A question for ocean going boaters.

[Bubba1235]

I've been helping a client look at (buy?) a live aboard in the gulf. He asked a question I really don't ahve an answer to so I thought I'd ask you folks. Most (all?) of the boats he has looked at have an upper and lower helm. His question is about the upper helm (flybridge).

Some have a hard top while others have a bimini top but all of them seemingly have the plastic enclosures. His question, what happens if you are off shore and hit bad weather (rain and wind)? What prevents the wind from ripping the plastic to shreds? How does it keep water from coming in and soaking the helm, controls, furniture, etc. How does it keep water from leaking to lower decks?

I have seen smaller boats (in the mid-west) with these enclosures and I've seen wind rip them to nothing in no time. What's different if anything with an ocean going live aboard?

 

[JoLin]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

Basically, what happens is the same as what happens in any boat if you're out in conditions that extreme. A distinct possibility that you'll lose your 'canvas'. As for water pouring into the bridge, the instruments and upholstery are the same water ressistant/waterproof stuff that's on any boat. It gets wet, and then it dries out.

For owners willing to spend the bucks, there are better enclosure choices than eisenglass, like strataglass and polycarbonate. Lots tougher, but they won't withstand EVERYTHING. Another thing to consider is the 'sail area' effect of having the enclosure up and closed in a big wind. The boat will roll like crazy.

Except in very rare instances, there's no excuse for being underway or in an unsheltered mooring if something like that is coming. Your client needs to use the on-board electronics and wireless information available to determine when it's time to duck for cover. The worst thing any boater can do is let 50' of boat provide him a false sense of security. Hopefully, your client is talking to other big water boaters to gain some common wisdom in this regard.

My .02

 

[Don S]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

All that canvas comes down for extended trips off shore. Boats the size you are looking at have inside helms to drive from when things get nasty. Inside is where you find all the electronics as well. Those "Green House" enclosures are for extra room at the dock or on inland short cruises, not for outside crossings.
They are also a huge sail when the wind kicks up, and they do get destroyed if it's bad enough.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

Hi Bubba. I live right here on the Gulf in N.FL, and you're right, there's really nothing to keep the wind from tearing up the soft top :/ Generally speaking, running and maintaining a boat in a marine environment is a lot more time/money/effort than freshwater, but it does have its benefits as well. Most live aboards down here are pretty robust and use hard top/T-top enclosures on the flybridge for durability/safety sake. There are some additional safety regs for liveabords as well. For example, depending on the specs of the boat, it may need to be able to survive a complete capsize, unlike many freshwater vessels. Of course, even if the wind itself doesn't get the soft tops, the unrelenting UV/sun as well as salt air will take their toll on even UV resistant fabric like Sunbrella in short order. The Gulf is particularly salty, so sea spray really becomes any issue over time. Fortunately, lots of folks here on the Gulf side are able to have the best of both worlds by mooring their boat upstream in any one of the many spring rivers that feed into the Gulf, then cruising out to sea when desired. Keeping your boat in a river also offers some protection from the elements, by providing shade and reducing the amount of time the vessel is in salt water. Plus, you get to see twice the critters and returning upstream rinses off the hull and flushes the engine of saltwater. I would encourage your buddy to double check the State regulations for liveabords and to do lots of research on the particular area he plans on using as a "home port". I know lots of folks that do it/have done it, but it does take some planning and homework. Btw, where is he planning on moving to?

 

[Don S]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

Makes sense to me Don. Is it worth it to build something that can enclose the helm?

I never found a reason for it, when they get wet you can't see out of them, they fog up inside. I liked the Bimini top we had on our 38' Trawler for when it was sunny and nice out, and an enclosure is great at the dock or at anchor for more room, but that is about it.
When docking, the enclosure comes down, or you do it from the inside so you can see. WS Wipers and defrosters.
It's also going to take experience on the owners part. you can't make everything perfect for them from the get-go.
They also need to know how to operate, navagate, and maintain it. Unless you are going to skipper it for them too.

Experience is what they need, and they need to get out and look at boats and find what THEY want, not what you pick for them.
Sounds to me like they should see an experienced yacht broker, which you obviously aren't. The broker can show them boats, and different features as well, then let them decide.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

I agree with Don. It sounds like you are taking the the lake-boat perspective to the coast. On the coast, boats are made for outdoor use and the equipment can handle the elements, up to a point of extreme wind (over 55). Rain water is not an issue. You don't have to cover the whole boat like you do a carpeted sofa boat.

"Building something to enclose the helm" sounds like you plan to get up there with some plywood and plexiglass. Go with add-ons that are made and installed by pro's who know the conditions. it's not like adding a shower to a party barge.

 

[Don S]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

I wasn't very clear. My bad. I meant the helm controls only.

Already working with a broker in Florida, just trying to help my client with a list of questions. He's been burned on boats before and after years beign my client he wants me involved and I'll be going with him to look at candidates in the not to distant future.

So he asks your opinion on things, and instead of you saying you don't know, you are going to give him the opinions you choose from a forum? That doesn't sound right.

Why not give him a link to this forum and let him ask the questions himself, and answer the questions he receives from here?

 

[arks]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

Agree with all the posts, but I'll share my experience.
I've had a flybridge boat for 8 years. It has a full bridge enclosure but in reality, I only use it in the spring and fall. All other times I keep a sunbrella bridge cover on (when not aboard). My slipmates have similar setups (shown below).
When onboard, I stow the bridge cover and put up the bimini without the panels. It gives great sun protection with almost no windage. I run the boat from the upper helm 90% of the time.
If I get caught near a storm (which has happened a few times), I snap on a small sunbrella cover that fits around the instruments, wheel and controls and head for the lower station. It's quite pleasant running from below. The only real negative is the reduced field of vision due to the lowered sightlines. The bimini stays up and I've never felt it was in danger of ripping out.

Here's a shot of the bridge cover with the bimini up. The windshield cover comes off when heading out. This is how I keep it during the summer:

 

[dingbat]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

I have a hardtop with full eisenglass enclosure. The enclosure goes on the boat the end of October and it comes off the first week in May. It's withstood 1000's miles at 70 MPH. It's it windy enough to rip my enclosure, I've got a lot bigger problems on the horizon.

 

[boatpoker]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

May I suggest a more appropriate forum for you questions ... Trawler Forum

If you are helping your friend look at boats this article may help Marine Survey 101

 

[shrew]

Re: A question for ocean going boaters.

Let's be completely realistic here. IF the wind is strong enough to start tearing the isinglass and canvas, then that will literally be the least of your problems. You're getting into the 60-70+ mph winds at that point. The boats you're looking at do not have significant range. A sustained storm that big will have been coming for some time and be known. Seeing as how you won't REALLY by that far offshore with that sized boat this is not a realistic concern. If it is, I'd be more worried about having a functioning Epirb and liferaft.