99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Good Evening All...

Starting a new thread. A few years ago my wife purchased a used boat while she was in NC without me. I truly believe that this boat had been in a situation that caused it to sink as I know see hull damage on the lower port side toward the bow. Secondly, somewhere along the line the OEM 4.3 was removed and a 5.0 installed. We had some work done on the engine this past year in NC and it seems to be running strong. I knew that I might have some kind of problem with the transom or outdrive gasket as we were getting water in the bilge. I also know that I had some deck rot. After reading several threads this spring about similar boats with similar problems, I knew that it was time for a serious rebuild.
Started to tear it apart last evening and to found that the rot goes from the stern to the bow. I feel that the only way for me to get to the rotted wood under the bow area would be to cut through the console area and out to where to bow cushions sit. I posted a picture showing how I would cut the fiberglass so that I can lift off and expose the rotted wood. I know this is biting off a big chunk but it's either fix it or sell the boat as scrap. I also see that the foam in the stingers around the gas tank is wet. Would the top of the stringer be cut off and the foam removed?
I'll welcome encouragement as well as the truth. Does removing the bow area make this more work than it's worth?

Thanks,,
TomView attachment 208884View attachment 208885View attachment 208886View attachment 208887View attachment 208888

 

[Watermann]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

A very ambitious project indeed. You will most likely have to remove the cap on her to be able to get at that rotted section of the bow. Your also in for a transom replacement in her too. I would start by relieving the boat of the motor and outdrive assembly.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Hello and welcome to the Iboats Dry Dock, Fiberglass Division, Tom...

Don't you worry yourself none...

At first this seems like a daunting task and to be honest it is a big undertaking but it is by no means rocket science or insurmountable...

There are going to be ups and downs along the way, but with the amazing resource of information, guidance and encouragement available on this forum, we'll have you grinding, glassing and refinishing this boat better than the factory ever did...

I would like to come aboard and watch, help and learn wherever I can.

My first bit of advice is to take lots of pictures, before, during and after, lots of measurements and notes about everything on the boat.

Anything you plan to save for later reuse, label and store, unless of course its obvious...

Depending on the type of boat and how it is constructed, it may be easier to completely remove the cap to make full access to the hull structure a lot less troublesome...
However, there are also ways around having to do that, if it isn't possible for whatever reasons...

And most of all, ask all the questions you never knew you were gonna ask...

Best of luck!
Gus

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Hi Watemann, When I brought her north, I had figured on a transom and deck but removing the cap is more than I bargained for. Want to determine the extent of the project in the bow before I spend the time and or money to remove the drive system.

Tom

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Hi, good to see you looking into this project. It doesn't seem to me that pulling the cap will much to your expenses, but it is a bit more work in terms of securing/bracing the hull wile the cap is off, as well as disconnecting a few things that you otherwise might not have too.

There are quite a few resto threads that document removing the cap; with the console/bow area and the cap as a single unit, you'll just have to figure out how to lift and store it, but then you'll have really easy access to the entire hull.

Other than the wood, is the boat in pretty good shape? It sounds like it was repowered recently, so the engine and outdrive are good?

In addition to the excellent advice about taking lots of photos (really, take way more than you think you'll need, and from multiple angles), I'd add a couple other general bits of advice. Label every hose, wire and cable you disconnect. Keep related parts in labelled ziploc bags (e.g., all steering linkage parts). Most important for me was to maintain a limited focus on what I had to do. I made a general plan of attack, of course, but after that, I tried limit my focus to the next step or two, otherwise the whole thing would get just too overwhelming.

Having engineered stringers will be a big time-saver, so you're already ahead of the game!

If you decide to proceed, I'd suggest reading up on cap removal to see what you're getting into.

Hope this helps,
Jim

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Thanks for the advise on the cap removal. I pulled the bumper molding and removed the aluminum trim the separates the hull from the cap. After seeing how the cap is connected, I am leaning toward lifting the whole cap. I wish I knew the weight of this cap. Saw one thread where the guy pulled the windshield to reduce the weight. When I watched friscoboater lift the lid on his Carlson, he talked about taking measurements of the hull but did not get into bracing. I suppose a guy could use ratchet straps under and then over the hull to keep the sides from spreading out. Also, If I pull the cap first, I believed that I will be able to pull the engine here at my house with my buddies engine puller and place it on the engine stand right here. Would there be any structural problems with pulling the cap before the V8 is pulled?

Jim,, You asked if the boat was in pretty good shape. Not sure. I'm sure that I'll run into issues but for now, I think I proceed.

It sure is interesting when you start to dismantle something like a boat. You start to look at other boats with a better understanding of what they're made of.



Thanks
Tom

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

And when you're done with this, you'll know your boat inside and out... literally!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

I think removing the windshield is a good idea, and not just to reduce weight. Windshield glass can be difficult/and or expensive to replace, so anything you can do to protect it when you pull the cap would be good.

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Would be a good time to replace the gasket under the windshield as well. Will also make wet sanding and buffing easier on the tail end of the project.

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Boy do I have a mess on my hands. The more I get tearing into this thing the more I wonder if I'm up to it.... Pulled the gas tank and there is a bunch of sludge. Looks like a combination of grease, oil and mud. That can be easily removed. What really has me confused is all of the cuts made to the stringers. Looks like someone took a sawzall and removed small sections of the stringers next to the hull. I'm starting to think that this was done in an attempt to let the water drain for the foam in the stringers. One would think if that was the reason, the holes would have been put to inside wall of the stringer which would allow it to drain lower to the hull. All of the foam in the stringers is soaked. As you can see from the pictures, the stringers have even heaved which I'm assuming could have been caused by water in the stringers freezing at some point in the past. Based on what shows here, am I looking at removing the stringers (foam core, no wood) and starting from scratch on the hull? I have not gone to expense or time to remove the drive train or the cap as I am looking for experience input of whether this boat is worth the effort.
Thanks, Tom

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Sorry,

Failed to attached pictures.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Realistically, you will likely never 'get' out as much money as you'd put into this resto.

No matter how much you paid for this boat, let's say $2K, if you spend twice that you'll end up w/ a significantly better boat then ANY other boat at that price point in your market when you total up all your costs $6K+/-

Only you can decide if this boat is 'worth' it.

Read thru some resto threads, your 'Oh, carp, what have I gotten myself into' reaction is, unfortunately, quite common.

Friscoboater paid $6-7K for his 2nd project boat & he KNEW what to look for & where to look. He still ended up driving 1500 mi, taking a sea trial & spending big bucks for a boat he thought was water ready. He may have posted his expenses for the rehab, but it wasn't inexpensive.

Friscoboater's threads are listed in Don's helpful how to's:
How To's and Other Great Information

Good luck w/ your project

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Wow... not pretty. Where are those blown-out sections located in the boat? Center compartment outside of the gas tank area? I think your hunch about the foam freezing and expanding is a good hypothesis.

Cutting a hole in the stringer doesn't make much sense, at least not in that location. Somebody's been there before you and did a poor repair, it seems.

If it were mine and if I decided to proceed, I would cut out stringers by running a sawzall parallel to the hull, about a half-inch off the hull. I'd clean out the wet foam from the stringers I removed. I'd prep the hull for return of the stringer by cleaning off any of the old foam that stuck to the hull, and I'd clean up the glass on the hull on either side of the stringer with some light grinding, taking care to not disturb the part of the stinger adhered to the hull (the part left when you sawzalled the stringers off). Then I'd set the cleaned-out stringers right on the stubs left on the hull, bedding them in thickened resin (aka peanut butter). Then I tab them back to the hull with a layer of 1.5 oz. CSM and about 4 layers of 1708. Then I'd drill some holes and carefully re-foam the stringers.

Even with all that, it would still be tons easier (I think) than fitting and glassing wood stringers. If you are careful, the stingers should be identical to what you removed (e.g., same height) and very strong. I did this on a limited basis where I cut out the stringers near the transom so I could get at that area. Glassing them back in was quite easy, although I didn't need to re-foam.

Seems like this project is getting more involved than anticipated and jbcurt00 is absolutely correct that only you can decide how much is too much. My experience of the demo stage was similar... I kept finding more that needed work than I expected. The reality is that replacing stringers isn't uncommon in resto jobs; I really think that fixing yours would not be as bad as what many guys deal with, but only you can decide if the extra steps push the job past what you want to do.

If you decide to go ahead, even with a test section of stringer, we'll be here to help.

Jim

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Jim, Do you know if the engine mount and bilge area are also foam filled. I would assume that it is. Might as well pull the cap and the engine and then remove the stringers as you mentioned. At this point, what do I have to loose. All I know is that this is the boat that I have and buying a late model similar boat with a 5.0 will set you back 15K. What's the most I could get by parting this one..... Since my wife is the one that bought this boat, I will have her 100% support and maybe a little help (non so far...) I know I'll never look at a used boat the same.
Tom

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Jim, To answer your first question, this cuts are in all three sections of the between the bulkheads. Just can't understand why they would not at least have cut on the downhill side for the stinger closest to the center of the hull if water relief was the goal. How was the oem decking on your boat attached to the stringers? If been removing 1.5" staples. I'm about ready to spend $20 of a boatfax report just for own mind.. Figure I'd find out this was pulled up off the bottom as some point.

Tom

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

My deck was attached with skinny little staples about an inch and a half long. (They were rusting, too.) It also looked like the deck was laid into thickened resin as it was stapled.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

After reading thru this thread, It appears you are still torn as to whether or not this restore is worth the time, effort, and money. These have been asked by almost every restorer here on the forum. Only you can really answer this. What's your time worth? Effort?? It's not too hard but can be tedious and perplexing at times. Money prolly 2-4K by the time you're all done. Not sure what the purchase price was but if it was about the same then you'll have a total of 8K in the boat when you're done. She'll be as good or better than new and will last for years. Only issue will be the motor and outdrive going forward. Proper maintenance and care. If you make a plan and stick to it on a daily steady basis you can and will have this done by next season and after a few trips to the lake you'll forget all about the itchy tedious work that you had to do. You prolly won't get your money back except in enjoyment. We can and will be here to help guide you through all the processes and procedures needed to complete the job. You can learn to do all that's required. You WILL at time be overwhelmed, discouraged and generally PO'd by the project, but...Patience is a virtue and if you stick with it the rewards are immense. Kinda like Marriage, For Better or Worse and this is the Worse part!!!!

 

[bakerjw]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Yep, we've been where you're at right now and it's decision time. If you really like the boat and want something solid for years to come, then go forward. If not, then figure out how much of the original purchase price that you can recoup by parting it out and scrap it.

Doing the restoration is quite doable. It is just really hard work and not inexpensive. My original hope of $1500 for my current project topped $2,000 very quickly and will likely edge out at around $3K. Today will make day 40 consecutive days of working on it too. BUT... When finished, my center console boat will be built better than anything on the market right now other than perhaps a custom build.

It sounds like you can pop the cap without too much trouble. Get it broken loose and see if you can lift each corner. I rented a duct lift to raise mine off.

You'll also hit those low spots while working on it. Yesterday I told my wife that in 20-20 hindsight, if I could go back to March of this year, I'd have gone out and bought a brand new boat. And even though the end is now in sight, I have to step back and plan out the next steps as some tasks have to be completed before others can begin. But... The end is in sight except when I wake up in the middle of the night fretting about how much more is required.

Heed WOG's words. This is an amazing group of supportive people.

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild

Guys, Thanks for the input. It sure is appreciated. Would not even try this without this resource!

Peeled back the decking from the port side tonight and found it to be just the same as the starboard side.

Notice in the picture that I circled and marked a hole that was used to fill foam in the area close to the motor mount. this hole was drill through the decking into to the stringer??? There is the same kind of hole in just about the same spot on the other side. On both sides close to this hole is where the outside of the stringer is actually bulging. You can also see where I have marked a square hole that appears to be cut from the bottom of the stringer. Any chance that this was some kind of poor manufacturing from the factory? Could the holes that were cut in the bottom of the stringers been put there so that when foam holes were filled in the decking that the liquid foam would run into these stringer holes to fill both the stringers and the cavity under the deck? They might have figured that more needed to be added to the area around the bilge and motor mounts. I also show a picture of a bulk head that does not touch the hull except on the very end.
Wish I knew why this is like this. Any thoughts?
Tom

 

[Lawrenceoverlook]

Re: 99 Larson 186 deck rebuild



Guys, Please bear with me. The photo that I hope is attached is just test from a photobucket account that I just opened at the suggestion of few folks on this site.

Tom