96 Johnson 150 v6 not idling

jrivera96

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Good morning, I have recently made the move from my sailing vessel ( Catalina 22) into a motor boat. Welcraft v20 step lift cuddy. I purchased the boat at what I would consider a decent deal, of course in its current not running condition.

Outboard : 1996 Johnson 150 v6 60 degree

Condition : engine starts, does not stay on idle; dies. Boat in water, docked in canal.

Symptoms : motor can get started, sometime will run for 5 seconds have had it running for a bit longer if I go back to the outboard and give the primer bulb a squeeze, and manually hit the throttle. If I use manual choke and start the motor the carbs seem to flood and spill gas out the intake side..

First issue I addressed was a broken key switch, replaced with new. No change to condition.

Next, moved to the fuel source. Set up external tank with a different primer bulb. No change to condition.

Then went further back. New champion plugs and new wires. No change to condition.

Removed all 6 carbs, did a thorough cleaning. also cleared the idle "tubes" in the bowls to ensure they are free of debris. No change to condition.

Motor has VRO conversion done. has a duel fuel pump setup. Took fuel pump off, took it apart, cleaned and checked diaphragms, all appeared good. used led light to ensure there was no hard to see punctures or tears in the diaphragms. Reinstalled. no change to condition.

Removed choke solenoid to check the gasket/ diaphragm. Appeared good.

Unfortunately, upon reinstallation I moved something just right enough it snapped the plastic fuel fitting to the inlet of the engine that feeds the carbs. With having the Vro bypassed and a aftermarket fuel pump. this fitting is a 90 degree elbow with two rubber o-rings and the other end smooth for a fuel line. Cant seem to find just this fitting anywhere. i see the versions for the VRO pump which would bolt to the top of the pump. and press into the motor.

The fitting being 1 issue but still scratching my head at the motor not idling. Any help on either would be much appreciated. I consider myself mechanically inclined. Will say this being my first outboard motor, I have felt defeated this past two weeks. Thank you for any feedback!
 
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racerone

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In what position is the red lever on the primer solenoid valve ?-----What are the compression values on this motor.
 

racerone

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Is the red lever inline with the primer valve body ?----Test for spark on this motor.------Spark must jump a gap of 3/8" on a test device.---Is there spark on all 6 leads or just 3 of them ?
 

Sea Rider

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If I use manual choke and start the motor the carbs seem to flood and spill gas out the intake side. Are all 6 carb's floats well height adjusted to factory specs, needles sharp pointy looking and needle's seats impeccable cleaned to a shinny condition while checked with a flashlight ?

Happy Boating
 

racerone

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There are no choke flappers on this motor.----A fuel primer valve opens and fuel goes into the motor when cranking.----This fuel bypasses the carburetor bowls and metering circuits.-----If fuel spills out of carburetors when cranking you need to look and find out why.
 

jrivera96

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There are no choke flappers on this motor.----A fuel primer valve opens and fuel goes into the motor when cranking.----This fuel bypasses the carburetor bowls and metering circuits.-----If fuel spills out of carburetors when cranking you need to look and find out why.
Understood. I have also made sure there was pressure of the fuel line going into the motor. i removed that elbow fitting prior to it breaking. Plugged the end with a finger and primed the system via the bulb. upon removing my finger has a very strong fuel output. Now that said, i can more then likely stop using the solenoid. As replacing the key switch gave me back the push function on the key as well. I can here the solenoid engage on the motor. so when that fuel out of the intake port of the carbs occurs, it is self inflicted by putting to much fuel. now this only happens when i start messing with it. not always the case with this reoccurring idle die condition.
 

jrivera96

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If I use manual choke and start the motor the carbs seem to flood and spill gas out the intake side. Are all 6 carb's floats well height adjusted to factory specs, needles sharp pointy looking and needle's seats impeccable cleaned to a shinny condition while checked with a flashlight ?

Happy Boating
As I cleaned each carb i made sure to look over the seats and needles. all looked like it had more recently been replaced. Still cleaned everything as good as I could. Everything looked in a good condition.
 

jrivera96

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Is the red lever inline with the primer valve body ?----Test for spark on this motor.------Spark must jump a gap of 3/8" on a test device.---Is there spark on all 6 leads or just 3 of them ?
will check this when I get home this evening. might as well do a compression test while at it. Have no fuel at the moment due to the broken fitting. And have no luck finding a replacement part unless purchasing a new fuel pump kit.
 

jrivera96

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will check this when I get home this evening. might as well do a compression test while at it. Have no fuel at the moment due to the broken fitting. And have no luck finding a replacement part unless purchasing a new fuel pump kit.
Here are some images of the fitting. the image of it together was a failed attempt at plastic welding it. unfortunately the plastic supplied with the welder is not fuel rated and did not hold up, so came back apart. The image of the fuel pump has a metal version of the same fitting.
 

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jrivera96

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Is the red lever inline with the primer valve body ?----Test for spark on this motor.------Spark must jump a gap of 3/8" on a test device.---Is there spark on all 6 leads or just 3 of them ?
Ok, got home and performed spark gap test, cylinder 2 & 6 no spark.
Compression test as follows.

Compression test
Cyl #2 - 95
Cyl #4 - 90
Cyl #6 - 95
Cyl #1 - 95
Cyl #3 - 95
Cyl #5 - 100
 

jrivera96

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Running on 4 of 6 cylinders would explain your issue.
Agreeable, did not know there was a specific gap to test for spark with. New to me and thank you for the information. So having new wires, do I start with coils or power pack, or more testing needed, such as moving the coils. I will say that when doing the plug wires, the coils definitely appear to have wear and time not on there side visually.
 

racerone

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Try moving coils.----No money spent and report the results.-----Cylinders are numbered from top ( #1 ) to bottom ( #6 )
 

jrivera96

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Try moving coils.----No money spent and report the results.-----Cylinders are numbered from top ( #1 ) to bottom ( #6 )
I based numbering port side top as 1. Will have to go back and check tomorrow evening. With moving the coils and will report back. Thank you again.
 

jrivera96

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Try moving coils.----No money spent and report the results.-----Cylinders are numbered from top ( #1 ) to bottom ( #6 )
As for the fuel fitting, do you happen to know where I can find a replacement? I’ve had no luck, only finding the version for the vro.
 

racerone

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Port side top is #2----The top cylinder ( look carefully ) is #1-----#1 is on the starboard side.
 

jrivera96

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Port side top is #2----The top cylinder ( look carefully ) is #1-----#1 is on the starboard side.
Understood, as the boat is in water I can not get behind it to work on it unless it is trimmed up, I tend to work on it with it down and hanging off the back a bit lol
 

Sea Rider

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As for the fuel fitting...
You must always pre lube with oil or grease any plastic or bakelite fitting before inserting it into any rubber hose, seen many broken fittings due to too much force applied when inserting the fitting into a dry hose...

Happy Boating
 

jrivera96

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Ok, update to the point I am at now. Moved coils to see if no spark condition followed, it did. Replaced 3 coil packs, spark has returned.

Replaced fuel fitting.

Still having idle issues. If i have timing advance fully engaged it will stay running for quite a bit longer, 2 - 5 minutes. still has a stutter almost as if it s missing. if i try to lower the advance and keep it alive with a little throttle manually. it helps but does eventually stall.

Spent a little bit of timing cleaning up some wiring and installing a switch panel last night. noting this to say that when engine is running i am getting a good charging voltage, via the volt display.
 
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