91 Celebrity Bowrider Stringers/Flooring Replacement

[Woodonglass]

You can easily do what you propose with out any structural consequences.

 

[wildcatfan1491]

Hey Everyone. A small update. I rounded all the stringers and bulkheads with a ¼” router bit and I finish cutting everything for under the deck. I just got to do a little bit of grinding then I should be good. But now on the important part. Some more questions for you.

I went down to the sailboat store in town and bought some stuff to start bonding and glass the stringers and bulkheads to the hull. I got 1.7 oz. of 406 (Colloidal Silca), 32 fl. oz. of 105 (Epoxy Resin), 7 fl. oz. of 206 (Slow Hardener) and 20 feet of 2 inch of fiber tape. They told me that is all needed to glass my stringers and bulkheads in. I was kind of weary at the moment.

I then had them explain to me how they would "glass" the stringers/bulkheads in. The gentlemen there told me that he would wet the whole stringer down except for to the top of it where the deck lays. I asked why not the top. His response was that you would wet that right before you lay the deck. Well then I asked after you wetted stringers/bulkheads and let me cure, would you wrap the bottom of them before you PB it to the hull. He told me no. He would just PB it and then fillet the PB and let it cure/dry. From there he would wet the hull and the part of the bulkhead or stringer again where you would put your 2 inch wide strip of fiber tape. Then he would lay the tape down and wet over it till it was transparent. Then let it cure.
I asked him on how confident he was on this method of keeping the stringers and bulkhead dry and he told me he was 110%. This is where I was starting to feel really iffy about what he was telling me. I have seen Woodenglass’ recommendation on glassing the stringers in and I like it but it seems it would be costly to do so. Don’t get me wrong, I want to do it right (the first time), but if the method the guy from the Sailboat shop works just fine, I will do it that way. Thoughts?
Also what is the purpose of the foam under the deck? Isn’t to help the boat float better? The Sailboat mechanic was telling me that boats today don’t come with that foam anymore. I find this really hard to believe. Am I missing something?

Here is my purchase today. ($125)


Here is the Sailboat Shop’s way:


Here is Woodenglass’ method of glassing a stringer:

 

[Woodonglass]

First off, it's your boat and you can do as you wish. What the sailboat guy told you is basically correct for non structural fiberglassing but NOT for stringers in a boat like yours. It would not be correct for Sailboat stringers either. The stringers are essential to provide structural strength to the hull to keep it from flexing under the pounding it receives from waves and wakes in the water. The fiberglass is what provides this strength along with the wood core. The wider the base of the stringer the better the weight distribution. Epoxy is strong and has better waterproofing characteristics than Polyester Resin but NOT that much more. 2" tabbings is not nearly enough to provide the vertical structural strength required for your stringers. That's only 1" of cloth on the stringer and 1" on the hull. With the fillet you won't ever get out onto the hull. You will need a minimum of 3 gallons of resin to do your stingers and bulkheads and then theres the resin needed to make the PB to bed the stringers and bulkheads with. For every Quart of resin used to make PB it takes 1 1/2 quarts of Silica to thicken it. Is there a reason you decided to use epoxy instead of Polyester?

 

[wildcatfan1491]

First off, it's your boat and you can do as you wish. What the sailboat guy told you is basically correct for non structural fiberglassing but NOT for stringers in a boat like yours. It would not be correct for Sailboat stringers either. The stringers are essential to provide structural strength to the hull to keep it from flexing under the pounding it receives from waves and wakes in the water. The fiberglass is what provides this strength along with the wood core. The wider the base of the stringer the better the weight distribution.

​I agreed with you this but the Sailboat guy thought otherwise.

Epoxy is strong and has better waterproofing characteristics than Polyester Resin but NOT that much more. 2" tabbings is not nearly enough to provide the vertical structural strength required for your stringers. That's only 1" of cloth on the stringer and 1" on the hull. With the fillet you won't ever get out onto the hull. You will need a minimum of 3 gallons of resin to do your stingers and bulkheads and then theres the resin needed to make the PB to bed the stringers and bulkheads with. For every Quart of resin used to make PB it takes 1 1/2 quarts of Silica to thicken it. Is there a reason you decided to use epoxy instead of Polyester.

I didn’t necessarily pick out epoxy over resin. The guy convinced me this was the way to go but he seemed really sketchy too. Would polyester be the better way to go or to just add a wider strip of tabbing (say 6-inches on the to the hull and the stringer) on top of the 2-inch tabbing that I will put down?

 

[tpenfield]

It does not look like a sailboat to me and I'm with WoG on this . . . the stringers need more tabbing area . . . 8" would be good rather than 2".

In working on both my sailboat and my powerboats, they are night and day difference in term of structural strength.

 

[Woodonglass]

The link is how I recommend installing stringers and the materials I'd use. I would not go to the extra expense of using epoxy and I for sure would not use 2 inch tabbings. I do it exactly like the drawings show. But again you're free to follow the advice of anyone you think makes the most sense to you. I'm just tellin you how I've done it and how I Would do it.

 

[wildcatfan1491]

I sat on this all weekend trying to decide if I wanted to stick with epoxy or go with polyester resin instead. I called around to different boat shops to find out what they recommend to use. 95% of them said they prefer the West System epoxy just because the how strong and reliable it is when it cures. So I decided to stick with the epoxy and fork out a little bit more for it. Now in previous posts I was on the fence about how much tabbing I am going to use but I think I am going to use Woodenglass' recommendation on how much tabbing. It will by far provide a lot more structural strength to each piece of wood.

Since I have never used epoxy before, I have a few questions about it. When I have wetted the stringers, how much epoxy is suppose to soak in? Should I wet each stringer a couple of times to make sure I get a good outside layer epoxy on each of the stringers? When the epoxy dries, is it suppose to be shiny or have a dull look to it and feel different compared to when there is no epoxy?

 

[kcassells]

You need to roll out the entire pc of wood. let it soak in and dry out. If you can, prior fill in any voids with a filler, pb and smooth it out. Only 1x is required. The next steps to the glassing will also add to the strenght. Wet out, after being pb in to place the glass should be to height or close to height and @4"- 6" first layout followed by 8"10". WOG pretty much has this defined. US composites may be of value to look into for pricing.
You may still need to grind out any imperfections that occur from the wet out/soaking {little brush/roller do-hickies}. So shiny or dull makes no differance. Always remember to acetone any surface prior to wet out of glassing everytime. Keep it/the area clean. Once coated you will see the difference as it is cured, can't miss it. Good Luck!

 

[Woodonglass]

Ok, since you're going with epoxy you need to remember a few things. You DON'T use CSM with epoxy. ONLY Fabric. For Tabbing in your Stringers I'd give em a good coat of epoxy outside the boat. Once they're good and dry and ready to install, Then I'd mix up some Thickened Epoxy to bed them in, install em and make your fillets. Then use 17 oz Biax Fabric to tab them in. First tabbing would go 1/2 way up the stringer and the same distance out on the hull. Last one all the way to the top of the stringer and the same distance out onto the hull. Stringers are Done!!! They'll be like a Tank!!! Here's the problems you'll have. Epoxy takes a long time to cure. It does not like vertical surfaces. It's very thin and runs like crazy. It will not want to stay on the sides of the stringers you will have to babysit it and keep brushing and rolling it up onto the sides to keep it from pooling at the bottom of the stringers and starving the fabric from resin. You WILL have plenty of time to work with it cuz it won't set up on you quickly but that's problematic too. Sometimes you want it to set up quickly. There's a trade off with everything. You'll figure it out. It's not that bad. Just different than Poly. I like working fast and so I like Poly. I'm also Cheap so I like Poly. Poly works very well with Fiberglass Boats so I use it. If I'm really worried about Strength and durability and I'm NOT gunna be gelcoating then I'll use Epoxy. Keep us posted and we'll keep helping:joyous:

 

[wildcatfan1491]

I am finally feel like I am moving along pretty quickly now. I have set a goal to be completely done by September 1st. I do want to give a huge shoutout to WoodenGlass. You have been beyond tremendous help. Also thank you kcassells. That was really helpful!

I just finished bonding the stringers to the hull. I was rather impressed with the work I did and the strength of epoxy. Somewhere I read that the strength of epoxy is 2500 lbs per sq. ft. and poly is 10% of that. I find that crazy. I do have to agree with WoodenGlass about babysitting the epoxy. It SUCKS! Oh well that is what I get for choosing epoxy. Usually I let it sit overnight (12+ hours) and it has cured/dried enough I can continue to work. I might have to invest in about another quart of epoxy resin and hardener finish everything.

Tonight I am going to finish filleting and start tabbing things down. Hopefully I can have that all finished by the end of the week.

Last night I order 2 x 1.8 gal 2lb floatation from US Composites so hopefully it will be here by the weekend so I can start pouring. Can someone give me some instructions or guidance on mixing and poring this stuff. Also, how long it takes for this stuff to dry?

Lately, I have been thinking about how I want to do the deck fsince gelcoat won't stick to epoxy. What I have came up with is that use poly resin on the deck to seal it. Then when I lay it, I would screw the deck into the cleats and viola. I won't have to worry about the epoxy and poly not bonding. From there I was going to tab the deck down to the hull and gel coat. Anyone think this is a bad idea?

Now time for the pictures. I will take more tonight.

 

[wildcatfan1491]

I am still working on the tabbing. I got my 1708 and my foam in on Friday. I started epoxying the 1708 down and then I ran out of epoxy. I am going to order some more from US Composites because it by far cheaper but it is going to take a week to get here. Also the reviews I am seeing on the US Composite Epoxy versus the West System epoxy say that is drys/cures a little bit slow but it is not that noticeable. Hopefully I can be pouring foam by next Monday. My last comment before I start adding pictures is that the 1708 is some thick stuff. It absorbs a lot of epoxy.

My box of foam and 1708.



My makeshift workbench with my tools, new foam, and 1708 (in the back corner of the table.



Measuring out and cutting the 1708.





Epoxying the 1708 down till I ran out of epoxy.

 

[tpenfield]

Looks like you need to wet-out the cloth more . . . :noidea: . . . should be nearly clear when set into place.

 

[Woodonglass]

Yup ^^^ Looks like you're not getting even close on using enuf resin. To do your boat you're gunna use close to 15 gallons of the stuff. Maybe more.

 

[tpenfield]

Just for reference, and as an example of wetting out the fiberglass cloth, here is a strip of 1708 cloth that I tabbed to the top of the stringer and underside of the deck on my boat. . . . (top of the picture)

It is basically transparent, because it was thoroughly wetted, giving the most adhesion. Without proper wetting of the tabbing material, the bond from stringer to hull could easily give way, resulting in a compromised structure, and basically a 'do over'.