89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes

Well I found someone to do the re-bore, he says the first oversize will clean it up nice. Have ordered the pistons and everything needed just waiting on the stuff to come in for rebuild.

While I'm waiting I'm going to do some preventive maintenance on the lower unit. I have ordered all new gaskets and seals for lower unit. I have a question related to the 89 lower unit. According to the clymer manual the 89 didn't have a 2 piece drive shaft, however there is a note in the manual stating that they only have diagrams of the most common assemblies. This is a G version in the 89 year (856A89G), so I'm assuming this may be one of the first units to entail the 2 piece drive shaft.

Anyways to get to the question, I want to remove the drive shaft seal, figure 75 page 450, shows a one piece drive shaft seal for the 89 one piece driveshaft, however, figure 76 page 452 shows a 2 piece drive shaft seal. I'm hoping the seal/gasket kit has the right one.

Lower seal?

Upper seal?

Or all one piece?

The manual doesn't state how to remove it. Should I just take a screw driver and pry it off like a tranny output shaft seal? I wont damage the cover will I?

Now for a corrosion problem. Can I just take some emory cloth and clean it up the mating surface a bit?

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes

I know I'm asking a lot of questions that may already be answered but hopefully this thread can be like a restoration thread. Something someone can come to and find every answer they need.

Next question is on the flywheel?

I've inspected the flywheel and my concern is the outer ring magnet. I've found a few cracks in it, however, it is solidly mated to the flywheel (not loose). Should I have concern with this and find another flywheel?

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Bench testing the stator, I discovered one leg was 678 ohms and the other was 1902 ohms. Is this bad????

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Stator windings should read between 680 - 850 Ohms. I would say the one winding is bad.

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Dag...I just keep throwing parts at this thing. When I'm through it will be brand new I guess.

 

[emoney]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Look on the brightside, scott: It absolutely will be "new" when you're done and from here on out you can ride 'worry-free'. Well, as worry-free as any of us are allowed to think, lol. Plus, have you priced new motors these days? You could rebuild this one a few times at these rates.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Looking at the flywheel photos: I would not do it for a rebuild I was doing for another person BUT--- If it were my personal engine I would try filling the magnet cracks with super glue gel and see what happens. As long as the magnet is glued tight to the rim, I think she would be OK!

Seals are always destroyed while removing them. Pry them out and be careful not to ****-up the sealing surfaces on the casting. That uses the Mercury type pump and bellows shift rod seal. When reassembling, screw the shift rod all the way down, then back out 4 full turns. This allows clearance for the bellows to compress.

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Seals are always destroyed while removing them. Pry them out and be careful not to ****-up the sealing surfaces on the casting. That uses the Mercury type pump and bellows shift rod seal. When reassembling, screw the shift rod all the way down, then back out 4 full turns. This allows clearance for the bellows to compress.

I'm assuming what's in bold is ideal for the shift linkage to operate the clutch as intended?

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: Stator?

Well finally got the lower unit seals and gaskets today. I got them all replaced and awaiting to install it in the morning.

I also got the motor remounted on the Maxum. I am charging the battery tonight and hopefully will be checking compression and spark in the morning. If all goes well, I will be doing a static timing and hopefully dynamic by late afternoon. Could be doing a test run of the engine at the lake Friday. School shopping Saturday and maybe some tubing fun Sunday. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[KnarfOH]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes

I had similar problem as you did. As you suggested, in my case, it was the head gasket. My post about my problem can be read HERE. You have to read down to find the solution I had previously posted on this forum.

I followed some suggestions I was given in this forum, but I am not mechanically capable so only did the obvious things a novice could do at home.

By the way, I started the engine in my drive and it seemed to run okay with a garden hose connected to it. Took it out and hard to start, so I figured, okay I am going to search for a dealer because I don't need an unreliable boat and/or engine.

They tested compression and found it low in the middle cylinder. Also spotted some moisture. Just like your pictures, my center spark plug was sparkling clean with no carbon build-up, etc.

I was charged around $207 by a dealer to replace the head gasket. They said they got the part from Iboats by the way. For all of their diagnosing and repair (they charge $92/hour) i was charged $58 for parts and rest for labor - $207.

In many ways, perhaps all ways, you are describing exactly the situation I was experiencing.

Good luck.. let me know.

NOTE: I POSTED THIS BEFORE READING ALL THE SUBSEQUENT POSTS. MY BAD.

 

[scottmm73]

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: video added

Re: 89 Force 85 HP #3 cylinder compression and ignition woes: video added

Well gentlemen...with your help Phase I is completed (powerhead swap). Test day at the lake today was a huge success.

This is a face of utter enjoyment.

89 Force powerhead swapped with an 86. See her at WOT.

FIL @ WOT or Father in Law at wide open throttle.

Phase II starts this winter with the refurb of the old 89 Force powerhead. Thanks again gentlemen for all your help. Will update this thread as the work progress but as for the rest of the summer, I will be on the lake.

Video here