88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

[Treshuevos]

First off, thanks very much for providing/participating in this forum. It has been a wealth of information getting me to the point I am at. I have read a ton, fixed/replaced a bunch and I'm finally stumped...so here goes.

I recently picked up a 76 Aquasport 170 with a 1990 Evinrude 88 SPL. I'll spare you the boat fixes and get right into the list of things I performed/inspected on the motor...

1. Bought a manual
2. Pulled, inspected & cleaned the carbs
3. Changed lower unit oil
4. Added fresh gas/oil/marine sta-bil to portable tank (original had been previously bypassed)
5. Cleared fuel lines (they look brand new)
5. Changed plugs
6. Bought new battery

Now that the weather is above freezing I attempted firing (on muffs) her up last weekend...

1. Performed the "pump the bulb, turn the key to on, hold key down for 8 seconds and turn to start routine" and ultimately got her to run. Took a bit but I figured it was to be expected based on what I have read and the fact that it sat for 6-8 months.
2. On a great pee stream I ran the motor for roughly 5-10 minutes, increased (slightly) RPM's put in in forward and reverse and everything seemed great.
3. Again, having done a ton of reading on this and other related forums I felt it was a good idea to perform a Decarb ASAP. I followed the "3/4 gallon of fresh fuel, 3 oz. of oil and 16 oz of seafoam" method." When the motor started consuming the seafoam mix she stalled (which I expected). Problem is, I can't get it started again.

Which brings me to where I am now....3-4 hours (spread out over last Sunday and today) trying to start. The best I'll get is 5-10 seconds of very rough idling and then off. I've pulled and cleaned the plugs over a dozen times (always wet...fuel and carbon soaked I believe) and still the same result. I've given it throttle at varying levels and no luck.

No, I have not performed a compression test yet...I know I should go out and buy a tester but I assumed based on the initial pre-Decarb startup that I didn't have an issue in this department?

I know there are a number of different potential issues based on the info I have provided but I was hoping by throwing it out there a flag might go up narrowing them down...or at least it may give me an orderly plan of attack.

Thanks again for all of the info you all have provided to date on other threads and thanks in advance for any help with my current dilemma.

 

[racerone]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Pushing the key in for 8 seconds before cranking does very little !!!--------Prime the bulb.-----Rraise the throttle only lever.--------Push key in while cranking the motor and HOLD it in while cranking.-----Then when motor falters push key in momentarily untill motor smooths out.

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

My apologies....I should have mentioned this as well. After flooding (or at least what I read/believed it to be) it a few times during pre-carb startup I went away from the 8 second procedure and went to the "hold the key in while cranking the motor" method" that you suggest above with much better success.

I had tried performing the above at varying levels of throttle with no luck. Do you recommend having the throttle wide open while cranking?

I've also tried bumping, or pushing the key in when it falters but it dies immediately when I do that.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

I'd move the fast idle lever up-you don't need full throttle, but the cold start lever will give you just enough extra air and fuel for starting. At idle that engine overfuels, so it's normal to see plugs seemingly wet/oily. It's at WOT rpm's that the plugs turn light tan. You've done a lot of fuel system work, but may not have checked to see if you have spark on all 4 cyls. That engine will seem to run just fine on the garden hose-when only running on 2 or 3 cyls. So, check the spark when running, either a cyl drop test or use an inductive timing light to test. An inductive timing light will flash the firings of the spark plug wire. It will show intermittents, no fire and weak firing, etc. Checking for spark is relatively easy and quick. If the spark checks out ok, then go back and get into all the potential fuel issues. It really is best to do a compression test first. No point in putting a nickel into it if one cyl has low compression.

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Thanks very much for the feedback. I'll check for spark first thing tomorrow and if everything looks good I'll try starting as you both have suggested.

Thanks again.

 

[racerone]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Where is the red lever on the electric primer ?

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Parallel to the primer

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

That's the correct position for normal "run" operation.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

On the linkage along side the carbs ......there is a mark that says START ....... make sure the linkage is lined up on that mark which affects the timing. The 88 Spl is a great motor.

There are some old school thoughts too...... most people install new plugs after the decarb If you are going to be running it for a decarb..... I am old school and recommend you use the old plugs then re-install the new ones

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Thanks Bob...I'll check to make sure the carb linkage is lined up properly morning.

Thanks again everyone and Happy Easter!

 

[ronward]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

"Treshuevos"???? That must be extremely uncomfortable

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Hahaha...Always nice to have a spare!

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Okay...finally got a chance to work on the boat and here is what I have...

1. Verified that the linkage is lined up with the "start" notch. I couldn't find anything that actually said start but if I interpreted what I read in the manual correctly it is lined up with the notch.

2. Went to Harbor Freight and picked up a "Spark Checker" and a "Universal Quick Disconnect Compression Gauge Kit".

3. Cold Compression #'s were as follows...1) 82 2) 75 3) 86 4) 75

4. Spark Test...couldn't get the thing to even light up.

Side note...the boat has a top mount remote control. Therefore, there is no fast idle lever...I am disengaging the shift arm (sliding it to the left) and advancing it until the idle screw lifts off of it's setting.

Any thoughts?

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Looking at your compression numbers, that should probably have been the first thing you did to the engine. I'd expect to see compression numbers between 95 and 100 on that powerhead. It's acceptable to have them within 10% of normal and within 10% of each other. Yours misses on the first criteria. Also looks like the starboard head compression is low. Maybe a bad head gasket. That would be an easy/cheap fix if that were the case. Check compression with another gauge to validate your readings. No point in putting any more $ into the engine till you get the compression numbers sorted out. Worry about the "no spark" problem later.

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Thanks for the feedback emdsapmgr...my biggest fear all along is that I bought a worthless engine. I agree, compression should have been the first thing I checked (prior to buying!). Expensive lesson to learn.

But I'm into it now so let's assume I verify the compression numbers with another gauge that they are in fact what I've stated above. Is it true that low readings can be the result of carbon build-up? And if so, is there a de-carb method I could perform that didn't involve a running motor?

Thanks again for all of the help!

 

[healey8390]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Your compresson numbers are low but relatively close so so that narrows it down to a few things for me. You either have an engine that's got a TON of hours on it and it's time for an overhaul, a couple leaking head gaskets or you have a ton of carbon buildup and the rings are sticking to the pistons. Let's hope it's one of the last two!

Is it true that low readings can be the result of carbon build-up? And if so, is there a de-carb method I could perform that didn't involve a running motor?

What I would do is pull the head on the lower compression side, spray the ever loving shyt out of the pistons around the perimiter with carb cleaner and (if it's a crossflow) jiggle the pistons back and forth. I wouldn't be opposed to using a complete can on each piston. Most of the spray will evaporte and drain into the exhaust but to be on the safe side after you put the head back I'd crank the engine a few revs with the plugs out to rid the cylinder of excess. Of course make sure you cover the leads so they don't start a fire lol. Re-check compression after that and hope for the best.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Bombardier makes a product called Engine Tuner. It's to dissolve the carbon on the pistons, heads and around the ringsets on the pistons. To be used when the engine is running. A few applications will usually improve the compression figures slightly, so it's a recommended procedure on any low compression engine, or one that starts poorly. Since your engine does not run, you would have to ingest the spray while cranking the engine or spray it direct down the spark plug holes. I'd do an application or two, then see what happens to your compression numbers and then go from there. Even if the figures go up somewhat, it's unlikely to change the wide variance you seen between the high/low cyls.

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Thanks again guys for the feedback. Sounds like the best bet from here would be to try a few applications of Engine Tuner first and see if the numbers improve...and if they don't, pull the head(s) as healey recommends...then cross my fingers.

Worst (and probably most likely)case, if the motor requires a complete overhaul what route do you recommend I take? Rebuild myself, buy a new/rebuilt powerhead or scrap all together? FYI: Money is an object.

Thanks again guys!

 

[healey8390]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

Thanks again guys for the feedback. Sounds like the best bet from here would be to try a few applications of Engine Tuner first and see if the numbers improve...and if they don't, pull the head(s) as healey recommends...then cross my fingers.

Worst (and probably most likely)case, if the motor requires a complete overhaul what route do you recommend I take? Rebuild myself, buy a new/rebuilt powerhead or scrap all together? FYI: Money is an object.

Thanks again guys!

The cheapest route would be to have it honed and re-ring it so hopefully your bores and pistons are good. Some people may tell you it's not good to put new rings on an old piston as they wear together and that's a very good point but sometimes our budgets won't allow us to "go all the way". I have personally put new rings on old pistons and let me reasure you, three years later my Chrylser has 135psi on all four cylinders! I overheated her at WOT due to a spun impeller and it died. My overheat buzzer was so faint I thought it was the low voltage alarm on my fish finder and by the time I realized what it was it was too late. The funny things is that when the engine died the buzzer got about 10 times louder?? Too little too late but I did hear it so talk about the worst time to have a blonde moment. The kicker is that that's the first trip I took the boat on after putting the buzzer in as I hadn't even had one all the years prior! Anyway, number two expanded at 6 and 12 o'clock and gouged my cylinder wall, had to be bored .02 to get it out! Another piston looked like it was about to do the same so I replaced it. I would of replaced the other two pistons if I had the $ but they looked fine so I went with new rings.

If your bores and pistons are good you're looking at about $400 to re-ring it if you do the work yourself. A powerhead gasket kit is about $107, rings will run you about $120, thermostats about $45 and I don't think a hone job would run you more than $100.

 

[Treshuevos]

Re: 88 SPL Starting/Running Issues

While I'm waiting for the Engine Tuner to arrive I figured I'd do a little more research. I popped the #1 Intake Bypass Cover (only because it was the easiest to get to) and found the following...



To my untrained eye things didn't look near as bad as I thought they would. There is a considerable amount of black (what I assume is carbon buildup) on the top of the piston but the rings appear fine. I applied light pressure to each with a screw driver and they rebounded as I assumed they should.

In addition, I tried the old school method of checking for spark (pulled each plug and grounded it while cranking) and I got a blue spark on all 4.

Not sure if this helps any but I figured while I'm waiting to perform the already recommended steps I would provide as much information as possible.

Thanks again...any help is greatly appreciated!