88 Force 125 tilt/trim problem

[GFerris]

Have replaced motor, pump, lines & new fluid and cannot get the trim/tilt to work. Motor runs No air in system.Problem started with the motor not staying up now it doesn't go up or down.

 

[Jiggz]

There is a sticky post, i.e FAQ etc . . . which covers diagnosing T&T problems. And before you start burning cash again, make sure you follow the troubleshooting guide, leak down tests. This is the only way to isolate the problem. There are only four major parts in the T&T system, the trim, tilt, valve body and motor. By doing the leak down test you can eliminate the tilt and trim which narrows it down to the valve body and motor. If the motor turns, then it is the VB.

When repairing the VB, DO NOT DISASSEMBLE IT. Just dismount if from the frame and from the motor ( 4 bolts). Follow the pics in the sticky post.

However, since you already "opened" the system and replaced the motor and pump, you need to make sure tubings are properly connected to their corresponding holes in the valve body. See pic.

Second, since you mentioned the pump has been replaced you need to check it's actually "pumping" by loosening the (Yellow) tube connected to the bottom of the trim cylinder at its connection at the valve body. Do not disconnect just loosen about a turn or two. Push the up button and if the pump is working you should see fluid leaking. If not, then pump is not working or check valves (inside the valve body) were put incorrectly. If you replaced the valve body with Chinese made valve body or pump, I suggest you replace the original valve body back. The original VB are far superior and just like any used item, only the O-rings needs replacing from time to time. In fact, even the original motor are preferred than the Chinese made ones.

If pump is working and all tubes are correctly connected, but neither trim or tilt will raise or go up, try helping by manually raising the motor while pushing the up button. DO NOT FORCE AND TRY TO MANUALLY LIFT THE MOTOR AS THIS CAN DAMAGE THE CYLINDERS. If it still would not move then loosen the tubing connected at the top of the tilt cylinder at its connection at the valve body. This will drain some fluid but should allow you to raise the motor manually while pushing the up button.

 

[Jiggz]

 

[GFerris]

First of all, thank you for responding. We have done everything you have suggested and it still won't go up or down on it's own. Any further suggestions?

 

[Jiggz]

So you're positive the pump is pumping fluid to the system and neither the trim or the tilt will go up or down even if you help it by manually lifting the motor? Or by disconnecting the tilt cylinder piston rod from the motor so that it'll be free to go up and down (no load) and having the motor in full tilted position supported by a wood block. Does the trim or tilt move at all?

 

[GFerris]

Trim & tilt can be lifted and let down manually. Once or twice I felt the motor lifting but very little. I have tried to prime and nothing significant.

 

[GFerris]

To clarify - The motor can be lifted only when the trim up button is engaged. But the motor will go down by itself without engaging the down button and stops at the fully extended trim cylinder. Also by lifting the motor up with the trim button engaged and letting it down which we did several time previously, the pressures did build up but did not build enough pressure to do it on it's own.

 

[Jiggz]

Like I mentioned before, when you were able to lift the motor up manually while simultaneously pushing the up button, place a wood block to support the motor to keep it from coming down. Thereafter, disconnect the "raise" tubing of the tilt cylinder (tubing connected at the bottom of the tilt cylinder) from the valve body. Plug the hole and cap the disconnected tube.

By doing this, you are basically isolating the tilt cylinder and test if it's leaking. To test, remove the wood block support from the motor and slowly let go of the motor. If the tilt cylinder is not leaking, the motor should stay in the up position. If it's leaking the motor will come all the way down.

If the tilt cylinder is leaking you need to rebuild it which basically involves replacing o-rings in the piston. I believe there are two o-rings.

If the tilt cylinder is not leaking. You will need to test the trim cylinder. Basically the same procedures . . . refer to the FAQ sticky post for step by step procedure.

If the trim cylinder is not leaking, then the VB needs to be dismounted from the motor swivel and from the electric motor. DO NOT DISASSEMBLE THE VB, instead refer to the FAQ on how to replace the o rings on the shuttle valve and on the spool valves.

 

[jerryjerry05]

If you bought a NEW pump??
Check where it was made???
The latest JUNK is usually made in China.
LOT'S of them fail right out of the box.
Send it back and get another one.

 

[GFerris]

OK , I'll try this and let you know. Thanks again!

 

[Jiggz]

Please do the troubleshooting it'll make the process quicker instead of second guessing. By isolating each cylinder you can pinpoint where the problem is.

 

[GFerris]

Per your instructions (para #1 & #2 - tilt) we did the test and motor stays up. Para #4 is the trim test. Motor did stay up but in this test position, using the power button the motor goes up and down like it should. WHAT!!!!! does this mean?

 

[Jiggz]

Well you've definitely got something going! Albeit not what I was expecting, LOL! Anyways, I need to confirm the following:

1. You fully raised, then disconnected and plugged/capped the tilt cylinder raise hyd line (one that goes to the bottom of the tilt cylinder)

2. Lowered the motor to place load on the tilt cylinder and NO LEAK DOWN AND STAYED UP.

3. Lowered the outboard motor to full trimmed down position

4. Removed the œlower trim cylinder line from the valve body. This line is the one located on the upper portion of the trim cylinder. Plug and cap both the line and the valve body port.

5. Raised the motor to fully up position (Full tilt). Note this action puts no load on the trim cylinder, instead its hyd circuit which is in parallel with the trim circuit is being put to test. By disconnecting the LOWER trim cylinder line and plugging/capping it, prevents the fluid from returning to the VB, since the tilt cylinder is not leaking as proven in the previous steps.

6. Mark across the swivel and stern bracket with a marker to note movement.

7. If leak down occurs, troubleshoot the valve body. The logic behind this, since the tilt cylinder is PROVEN NOT TO BE LEAKING, and the "return line" (line on top of the trim cyl) from the Trim cylinder is capped/plugged, then the only way fluid can leak is in the Valve body.

8. If leak down DOES NOT OCCUR, REBUILD OR REPLACE TRIM CYLINDER. NOTE THIS IS WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT THE TILT CYLINDER PASSED THE LEAK DOWN TEST IN THE PREVIOUS STEPS, which you did correctly. The logic behind this is that since the "return line" of the Trim cylinder is plugged/capped and fluid has no where to go, except with the return line of the Tilt cylinder (which was proven not to be leaking down), then it proves the Valve body is not leaking and working properly. So the problem lies only with the trim cylinder.

 

[GFerris]

1. You fully raised, then disconnected and plugged/capped the tilt cylinder raise hyd line (one that goes to the bottom of the tilt cylinder)1. You fully raised, then disconnected and plugged/capped the tilt cylinder raise hyd line (one that goes to the bottom of the tilt cylinder)..... Green line YES!!

2. Lowered?????? the motor to place load on the tilt cylinder and NO LEAK DOWN AND STAYED UP........I could not lower the motor. Did you mean remove the wooden block? Yes we did and the motor stayed up.

3. Lowered the outboard motor to full trimmed down position. .... Yes, after reconnecting the Tilt cylinder lines.
not the bottom.

4. Removed the œlower trim cylinder line from the valve body. This line is the one located on the upper portion of the trim cylinder. Plug and cap both the line and the valve body port..... ????? Confused by this question Upper ?? Lower?? Are you talking about the red line or the yellow line? I did this to the yellow line. Is that correct?


5.- 8. below I understand. Above #4. If the yellow line was the correct line , I'll wait for your answer,( LEAK DOWN DOES NOT OCCUR), I will rebuild or should I say ,I will attempt to rebuild the trim cylinder.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................

5. Raised the motor to fully up position (Full tilt). Note this action puts no load on the trim cylinder, instead its hyd circuit which is in parallel with the trim circuit is being put to test. By disconnecting the LOWER trim cylinder line and plugging/capping it, prevents the fluid from returning to the VB, since the tilt cylinder is not leaking as proven in the previous steps.

6. Mark across the swivel and stern bracket with a marker to note movement.

7. If leak down occurs, troubleshoot the valve body. The logic behind this, since the tilt cylinder is PROVEN NOT TO BE LEAKING, and the "return line" (line on top of the trim cyl) from the Trim cylinder is capped/plugged, then the only way fluid can leak is in the Valve body.

8. If leak down DOES NOT OCCUR, REBUILD OR REPLACE TRIM CYLINDER. NOTE THIS IS WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT THE TILT CYLINDER PASSED THE LEAK DOWN TEST IN THE PREVIOUS STEPS, which you did correctly. The logic behind this is that since the "return line" of the Trim cylinder is plugged/capped and fluid has no where to go, except with the return line of the Tilt cylinder (which was proven not to be leaking down), then it proves the Valve body is not leaking and working properly. So the problem lies only with the trim cylinder.

 

[Jiggz]

That will be the red line. Disconnect, plug and cap and then let down the motor upon the tilt cylinder and then watch for leak down. If no leak down rebuild the trim cylinder. If leak down occurs rebuild the Valve body.

 

[GFerris]

Got it! I'll check it out tomorrow. Thanks Captain!

 

[Jiggz]

On a personal note after reporting that the tilt cylinder worked as expected after disconnecting the raise line on the trim cylinder, it's almost for sure the trim cylinder is leaking down. But the final test will confirm this.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Tried t send you a PM about a trim cyl. as soon as I added and text the icon to SEND the pm went away??
So here it is, if interested send me your e-mail.

f you can't rebuild?​

I have a tilt cyl. ​

I believe it's good??​

Needs a rubber bushing.​

Also.​

They sell an o-ring kit to rebuild the whole system.​

I've seen it on eBay​

OR​

If you pay shipping I'll send the cyl. to you.​

The only is thing I expect is you donate 20$ to a local animal shelter.​

Or send me 38$ and I'll give to Halo Animal Shelter.​

These cyl. can cost 200$ ​

Let me know if you're interested​

You can contact me(maybe) with a PM​

 

[GFerris]

First, thank you so much for the offer.. I have ordered all the internal parts to rebuild the trim cylinder. It will be a a couple of days before I receive the parts. I will let you know when I'm done if everything is working properly. When all is done I will be happy to make a donation to the Halo Animal Shelter. I told my grandchildren,the boys , twins 9 & their brother 8 yr, who are coming over this weekend that the boat may be fixed and that someone named Caption is responsible for the fix. I am G Ferris of adoptashoreline.com. All my contact info is at the bottom of each page.

 

[Jiggz]

While waiting for the parts, now is the time to soak those bolts with PB Blaster or penetrating oil. I do not recommend WD40, based on personal experience. Those bolts being submerged in water (worse yet in salt water) tend to seize big time and because of their tiny size breaks easily.

If you break a bolt which is stainless, you will need a cobalt drill bit to drill it out. And the best way to do it is with a drill press. When putting it back together, use anti-seize on all bolts. Goodluck and hopefully you won't have to do the drilling, it's PITA!