86 Sea Ray Restoration [Splashed Oct 2017]

Jswimmer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
36
Goldie... I have been reading through lots of posts on here getting information, etc and I must say you have been a great inspiration. I recently bought a 1967 Larson Volero that I am restoring with my 16 year old son. We are def newbies with very limited knowledge. I have read through your thread and am amazed how far you have come from day 1. Your boat looks fantastic! I am also very impressed with how everyone is so willing to help as well as the encouragement they give through the process.
 
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Ianlinares

Seaman
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
59
Hi Goldie, What emblem did you use for the side emblem on your boat. I have the same boat but the only original I can find is crazy expensive.
 

Goldie627

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Oct 28, 2013
Messages
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Goldie... I have been reading through lots of posts on here getting information, etc and I must say you have been a great inspiration. I recently bought a 1967 Larson Volero that I am restoring with my 16 year old son. We are def newbies with very limited knowledge. I have read through your thread and am amazed how far you have come from day 1. Your boat looks fantastic! I am also very impressed with how everyone is so willing to help as well as the encouragement they give through the process.

Hey Ian, I'm not on the forum much but I'd be honored to help you and your son any way I can, send me a pm and I'll give you my email if idont answer the your questions in this post fast enough.
 

Goldie627

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Hi Goldie, What emblem did you use for the side emblem on your boat. I have the same boat but the only original I can find is crazy expensive.

I believe i found them on eBay, I'll check to see if I have my old ones still, if so I'll post a pic and if you wanna fix them up I'll send them to ya.
 

Goldie627

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Oct 28, 2013
Messages
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So I have been saving for a new oem quicksilver carb. Got it installed and adjusted. I took it out to the water top end was strong but I still have that low end hesitation with acceleration. So far I've done 99.8 percent of my restoration by myself and it's gonna hurt my pride to put it in the shop. I just ordered a oem fuel pump and if that doesn't fix it I don't know what else to do. Yesterday me and my big bro went fishing and to test out the new oem carb. Happy holidays to all my iboats family!!
 

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Goldie627

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Latest addition, rod storage for bow rail.
 

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Goldie627

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it holds 8 rods and that's good but does it hold 8 rods with reels??? Lol well see, it's kinda cramped.
 

Goldie627

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Close ups...
 

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Rick Stephens

Admiral
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Aug 13, 2013
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6,118
Wish sometimes we had more of your weather..... well, I moved here from Gilroy, so can't really complain. We've had snow on the ground all week. Rainin now. Boat all tucked in for the winter. I still have to weld the bottom 2 inches on the bottom skag. The outdrive, for the first time, settled and I busted 2 inches off, that had been welded on by the PO, when I moved the boat with my tractor. Never even noticed except for the groove it carved in the drive around the shop. Shame on me.

Boat is looking good and sounds like you're running close to where you want it. Is your midrange miss when you add a little throttle or all the time when you have the throttle cracked? Those are two different issues. If when you open the throttle from idle it hesitates, then most likely you need to increase the throttle pump travel. If you open the throttle a bit and the engine doesn't ever stop stumbling, then it is a possible blocked port. I wouldn't suspect fuel pump whatsoever since your motor runs fine at WOT. Weak fuel pump will fall on its face at WOT. Low end stumble is NOT a fuel pump.
 
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Goldie627

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Oct 28, 2013
Messages
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Wish sometimes we had more of your weather..... well, I moved here from Gilroy, so can't really complain. We've had snow on the ground all week. Rainin now. Boat all tucked in for the winter. I still have to weld the bottom 2 inches on the bottom skag. The outdrive, for the first time, settled and I busted 2 inches off, that had been welded on by the PO, when I moved the boat with my tractor. Never even noticed except for the groove it carved in the drive around the shop. Shame on me.

Boat is looking good and sounds like you're running close to where you want it. Is your midrange miss when you add a little throttle or all the time when you have the throttle cracked? Those are two different issues. If when you open the throttle from idle it hesitates, then most likely you need to increase the throttle pump travel. If you open the throttle a bit and the engine doesn't ever stop stumbling, then it is a possible blocked port. I wouldn't suspect fuel pump whatsoever since your motor runs fine at WOT. Weak fuel pump will fall on its face at WOT. Low end stumble is NOT a fuel pump.

Yes Rick, I am very lucky. Its cold and sometimes foggy in the mornings but after it burns off we have some truly beautiful days. Did you find the skeg part that broke off?

Unfortunately, the oem fuel pump is already on its way. Happy thanks giving! i took the boat out today bymself for the first time. I was so slow bymyself im glad there was nobody else out there. :)

starts right up
idles ok for an old motor
throttles at slow speeds no hesitation
slow to mid range throttle wants to bog or die out (i ether have to back off the throttle or give it more throttle)
wot all day long no hesitation
you can bypass the hesitation by just giving it full throttle from a slow speed command

the new oem carb had three holes on the accelrator pump rod so i used the A hole LOL mercriser service buliten has the accelerator pump rod holes labeled as A, B, and C

as you suggested i moved the rod from the B to A only way to get more cc's is to bend the rod

im so stumped.... 4 years of restoration.... i really really wanna do more fishing and less tinkering/fixing

im just frustrated
 

Goldie627

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also, im not famialar with a blocked port, what are you refering to? thanks
 

Rick Stephens

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Messages
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I'd love to peruse the Merc service manual for your carb, but boatinfo is still down. That sucks as the service manual for the Mercarb is pretty thorough. Here's my take on it.

Carburetors have an adjustable idle mixture, then when you crack the throttle, there are ports built into the venturi which draw fuel into the air flowing past. With the throttle cracked open, the fuel mixture adjustment is set by carburetor design, not by virtue of an adjustment you can change. Once you start getting the butterfly open past maybe 1/8th throttle the main jets begin to come into play and become the most important consideration. If the problem occurs with really early, less than 1/8th throttle opening, then usually a passageway, what I called a port, is possibly plugged or the float height is wrong. I believe that Mercarbs have a power valve as well, which comes into play when the throttle plate is nearing wide open and with high airflow, minimal to low vacuum conditions.

I haven't done much with the 2 barrel Mercarb. I think I would look towards float height first. That plays a huge part of the mid and high range behavior. Then I would consider if the stumble is a lean condition or a rich condition. I would guess lean, but that's all it is is a guess. You might run for a bit with it stumbling then turn the key off without changing throttle position, so you can look at plugs as they look like right then, during the stumble behavior. Pull a plug from one of the middle two holes. If wet then maybe running too rich. If clean dry and light colored, then best guess is lean.

If you are running lean in a mid throttle range (I would think of midrange as quarter to half open), then the cure is float height first, then main jetting change may be in play. From what I understand of Mercarbs, this may be tough as the jets may not be readily available.

.


All the above is general carburetor stuff. If only reality was so simple. Add to the above is possible vacuum leaks, engine wear and tear, timing, fuel supply, etc. Like you, I expect when I fix up and tune up my motor, that it should run smoothly as I add throttle. If I had a carburetor problem, a new carburetor should disappear the problem and I should be grooving on the water. When things don't come out like I expect, then I need to review everything one more time.

You my need to write this all up and post in the Mercruiser Repair section again. I would list every part that is new on your motor. What you have done to ensure clean fuel delivery. And the progression of your adjustments and testing. It is going to take a while to write it up completely. I would consider a short video of the stumbling behavior and your comments to the throttle settings when it occurs, if you have that capability. There is a LOT of Mercarb experience on the forums. Use it. And I will help any way you need.

You'll get it. And then it'll be time to fish all over the delta. All cake after figuring it out.

Rick
 

Goldie627

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Messages
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I'd love to peruse the Merc service manual for your carb, but boatinfo is still down. That sucks as the service manual for the Mercarb is pretty thorough. Here's my take on it.

Carburetors have an adjustable idle mixture, then when you crack the throttle, there are ports built into the venturi which draw fuel into the air flowing past. With the throttle cracked open, the fuel mixture adjustment is set by carburetor design, not by virtue of an adjustment you can change. Once you start getting the butterfly open past maybe 1/8th throttle the main jets begin to come into play and become the most important consideration. If the problem occurs with really early, less than 1/8th throttle opening, then usually a passageway, what I called a port, is possibly plugged or the float height is wrong. I believe that Mercarbs have a power valve as well, which comes into play when the throttle plate is nearing wide open and with high airflow, minimal to low vacuum conditions.

I haven't done much with the 2 barrel Mercarb. I think I would look towards float height first. That plays a huge part of the mid and high range behavior. Then I would consider if the stumble is a lean condition or a rich condition. I would guess lean, but that's all it is is a guess. You might run for a bit with it stumbling then turn the key off without changing throttle position, so you can look at plugs as they look like right then, during the stumble behavior. Pull a plug from one of the middle two holes. If wet then maybe running too rich. If clean dry and light colored, then best guess is lean.

If you are running lean in a mid throttle range (I would think of midrange as quarter to half open), then the cure is float height first, then main jetting change may be in play. From what I understand of Mercarbs, this may be tough as the jets may not be readily available.

.


All the above is general carburetor stuff. If only reality was so simple. Add to the above is possible vacuum leaks, engine wear and tear, timing, fuel supply, etc. Like you, I expect when I fix up and tune up my motor, that it should run smoothly as I add throttle. If I had a carburetor problem, a new carburetor should disappear the problem and I should be grooving on the water. When things don't come out like I expect, then I need to review everything one more time.

You my need to write this all up and post in the Mercruiser Repair section again. I would list every part that is new on your motor. What you have done to ensure clean fuel delivery. And the progression of your adjustments and testing. It is going to take a while to write it up completely. I would consider a short video of the stumbling behavior and your comments to the throttle settings when it occurs, if you have that capability. There is a LOT of Mercarb experience on the forums. Use it. And I will help any way you need.

You'll get it. And then it'll be time to fish all over the delta. All cake after figuring it out.

Rick
Thanks Rick, but in the words of the great Roberto Duran...... "No Mas" im thowin in the towel. After months of tinkering and thowing parts (expensive parts) at it I'm done. I did the best i could. Im taking it to the shop 2maro. Gonna cost me 125.00, but if they actually figure it out it would be the best 125 ive spent so far. I cant splash with a clear mind unitl its 100 percent. I havent taken any short cuts in my restoration and i cant call it done without it being right.

I'll keep you updated. below is the note i wrote for the marine mechanic:

1986 Sea Ray
Mercruiser 140 3.0
140 GM 181 I/L4 1982-1986 - 6229718 THRU 0B450800

Concerns:
1.) Boat has no mid range throttle, wants to gasp and/or cut out, seems like a lean condition in the mid throttle range.

2.) Identify location of oil leak, oil is on the starboard side of bilge (noticeable after high RPM's). Initially i thought it was blow by from valve cover breather tube, but im not sure...

3.) Double check my compression results, i found:
1 155
2 165
3 170
4 175

Things i've done to improve performance:

New oem carb, new electronic ignition conversion kit included distributer, spark plug wires and coil, new spark plugs, new oem fuel pump, new fuel lines, preasure tested and cleaned gas tank interior before powder coating exterior, new gas tank pick up, new metal fuel line (from fuel pump to carb), timig set just a hair above 6 BTDC, only use chevron supreme gas.

Hurts my pride to bring it in but im stumped on the mid throttle lean condition. Only thing I didnt try was raising the carb float but didnt think that should be necessary on a brand new oem carb.
 

JASinIL2006

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
5,667
Smart man. I hope they get that thing running like a top. Time for you to be a boater and not a restorer!
 

Goldie627

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Oct 28, 2013
Messages
1,010
I dropped the boat off Tuesday morning, it was like dropping your kid off for the first day of school! Lol I tried not to look back but I had too! Lol

The owner said he'd call me in a few days, didn't hear from him. So I call him Thursday, he said he'd have his mechanic look at it first thing Friday. I call Friday afternoon and he says his mechanic called in sick, and he won't get to it till Monday. I told him I would pick it up Saturday. But he says he's closed Saturday, I told him your web site says your open Monday through Saturday. He says oh i have to change that, those are summer hours.....

I am so discouraged, hopefully I'll get my baby back 2maro morning (Saturday morning).
 

Goldie627

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Messages
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It really took alot for me to even consider putting it in the shop, then this.....
 

Goldie627

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Messages
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So I've been doing more research, I'm going to use my old rebuilt carb as a guinea pig...

In the mid throttle range there is a lean condition. Without a doubt.

So, I will try to raise the float and also remove the carb inline filter, this should cause less restriction and more fuel to pass through faster. This is for temporary testing purposes but I'm curious.

Also, I can make sure that the accelerator pump arm is extended as much as possible with no slop in the linkage.

I was thinking about jetting up as big as I could but I have a feeling my problem is in the idle circuit and that's before it switches over to the jets.....

Any ideas are welcome...
 
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Goldie627

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Oct 28, 2013
Messages
1,010
I also read about some guy who drilled his accelerator pump passage larger to allow more fuel passage.....

That's sounds kinda dicey, not sure if I'm willing to ruin my old carb to find out if it works...
 
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