85 force lower unit drain plug

[Jiggz]

Switched it back so cdi2 connector 1 is powering coil 3 and still no go.. (same connector that gave no spark to coil 1 originally.. I'm thinking maybe the CDI is bad.. I don't have a way to test it unfortunately.. anyone have any thoughts I can try before I order a replacement?

I wonder if the CDI was always bad and they had it wired for 2 and 3 for some reason...

I'm assuming when you did the switch back, you also did the same with the trigger wires, orange and green trigger to Or and Grn on CDI wires. Double check the wiring again against the diagram. And if everything is OK, it could mean the CDI is bad and needs replacement.

Note the schematic drawing, the power wires going to both the CDI's, Yel and Blu. going to the terminal board. Note two blue wires being terminal'ed together feeding the #1/#2 CDI and none on the #3 CDI (which only has the yellow wire). Could it be that the Yellow wire powers up only the #3 (orange ckt) and if you decide to use only the Red ckt you should connect the blue wire instead.

 

[sidewing]

I'm assuming when you did the switch back, you also did the same with the trigger wires, orange and green trigger to Or and Grn on CDI wires. Double check the wiring again against the diagram. And if everything is OK, it could mean the CDI is bad and needs replacement.

Note the schematic drawing, the power wires going to both the CDI's, Yel and Blu. going to the terminal board. Note two blue wires being terminal'ed together feeding the #1/#2 CDI and none on the #3 CDI (which only has the yellow wire). Could it be that the Yellow wire powers up only the #3 (orange ckt) and if you decide to use only the Red ckt you should connect the blue wire instead.

Yes, I never moved the trigger wires, I just moved the 2 wires coming from the CDI to the same terminal points as the trigger wires. They matched up with the schematic..
I noticed in the drawing that the blue wire wasn't connected to anything... So I looked last night and on the terminals, it's actually different.. there's a blue wire going into the terminal block for Cdi1 and wired to Cdi1 blue wire.. and on mine, there's a second blue wire also coming from the stator, connected to the same terminal point as the blue for cdi2.. I'll snap a pic of the side and post.

 

[sidewing]

New video by Marcus Gutierrez

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Jiggz]

New video by Marcus Gutierrez

photos.app.goo.gl

So it would seem the drawing is inaccurate. I looked on other schematic for 85HP with Prestolite Ignition system, has both blue and yellow wires connected for each CD Unit. Which is the same as you've shown in the video. So the only next step now is to wait for the replacement CD unit and hopefully, everything works accordingly. I'm still puzzled that the old CD unit feeding #1 and #2 was at least firing on it #2 ckt. And yet when moved to the #3 plug, it wouldn't fire at all.
If you have a DVA adapter, try reading voltage output on the #3 trigger wires and you should at least have 0.5+ at cranking speed or even 1.0V+ idle speed. While at it might as well read output voltage on the CD unit with at least 180+ voltage output. And the input voltage to both CD's for comparison. This while waiting for the replacement parts.

 

[Nordin]

Have you check the terminal lugs for all the thin wires from the triggers?
It is common that the wires break under the shrink tubes cause they are so thin.

 

[The Force power]

from reading other threads, it sounds like I may be able to test this by disconnecting the white kill wire one at a time to see if it makes the other pack have spark..

Will probably try this tonight.. Although it makes me a little nervous about the engine possibly not turning off.. I saw someone said to remove both, then you can depress in the key to engage the choke and the engine will stop... Any thoughts or advice on this?

You can also;
Attach a "ground" wire to the block & use that to ground the white wires to kill the engine

 

[sidewing]

Have you check the terminal lugs for all the thin wires from the triggers?
It is common that the wires break under the shrink tubes cause they are so thin.

I'll give them a check shortly.. thank you.

 

[sidewing]

Got some updates:
Received the new CDI unit. Connected it to power coil 3 and still have no spark on 3.. yes spark on 1 and 2.. the wire crimp was brittle and broke on the blue wire going into the CDI controlling coil 3.. I re crimped it. No change in result..

I unplugged the white kill switch wire for CDI powering coil 3 and no change..

so i swapped the CDI units again, completely unwired and rewired based off the schematic... And the exact same thing.. spark on 1 and 2 with no spark on 3.. I disconnected the white kill wire on CDI controlling coil 3 and no change... Still only spark on coil 1 and 2...

So I tried swapping coil 3 with the one from eBay, and for some reason, the engine is bogging now and it appears I only have spark on 1 coil, not 2 or 3.. which is really strange because I don't see how swapping coil #3 would change things when I literally had great bright spark on coil 1 and 2...

So tomorrow, I'm gonna put the original coil 3 back in, and hope I get back to the point to where there's good spark on 1 and 2 and nothing on 3... Then I'll try recrimping the 4 connectors relating to the trigger and stator for coil 3 just in case...

Short of that, I'm getting closer to the point of just accepting that my boat is gonna run on 2 cylinders instead of 3

 

[Jiggz]

The swapping of parts is a quick way to ID faulty components. However, it's never fool proof. I highly recommend you start taking readings on the output from the Trigger wires and Stator. With your parts switching you should have a very good idea which parts are working based on the configuration of the system as of now. But only output readings will tell you exactly where the fault is at.

 

[sidewing]

Thank you for all the help. I can't even get the engine to start anymore. It starts for a moment then dies out. I've been trying to fix it for the past few hours and no luck.. It really sucks I just can't find a mechanic that will look at this engine for me.. Starting to feel like I should just sell it as is and call it a loss. Probably would've been better just to leave it alone instead of trying to get the 3rd cylinder going.
I did find that the blue wire going from the stator to cylinder 3 was brittle and the connection needed a new crimp.. I was really hopeful that would fix it and I'd be on 3 cylinders, but I can't even start it now to see.
Maybe I'll feel like trying again another time.

 

[Jiggz]

Giving up at this point will be a total loss especially with the gained knowledge on the workings of the motor. Try verifying your wires again. Do not assume or just do a visual. Instead, do a continuity check on each wire you re-connect. Install all original CDM's first and hopefully get it back where 1 and 2 is working again. Do the same with the coils, put back all the originals. Before trying to re-starting, check outputs on triggers wires (each pair of wires) and then the stator (each pair of wires). You can do this even at cranking speed alone. Hopefully, you already have a DVA adapter or a DVM with a DVA reading capability. Check utube on how to use or even build a simple DVA with a DVM.

 

[sidewing]

Giving up at this point will be a total loss especially with the gained knowledge on the workings of the motor. Try verifying your wires again. Do not assume or just do a visual. Instead, do a continuity check on each wire you re-connect. Install all original CDM's first and hopefully get it back where 1 and 2 is working again. Do the same with the coils, put back all the originals. Before trying to re-starting, check outputs on triggers wires (each pair of wires) and then the stator (each pair of wires). You can do this even at cranking speed alone. Hopefully, you already have a DVA adapter or a DVM with a DVA reading capability. Check utube on how to use or even build a simple DVA with a DVM.

I'll look into it. I had my wife look right now when I tried to start it and she said only #1 was sparking when I tried to start it.. I'll backtrack and put the old CDI back on tomorrow and see if I can get it to at least run on 2 cylinders again.. will look into the DVA/dvm

 

[sidewing]

I ordered the DVA adapter yesterday, set to be here Tuesday... But: I HAVE SPARK ON ALL 3 FINALLY!!!

Here's the sequence of events:
Wife told me she only saw spark on #1 when I turned ignition (as mentioned)...
I decided to roll back to my original CDI units, but wiring in number 3 coil into the cdi2 secondary unused connector as originally was the plan (as I knew this was providing spark previously)...
I checked all the wire crimps and found the trigger wires for #2 and #3 were brittle at the crimp and broke off very easily...
It started up but I only had spark on #3 this time.. seemed strange since Cdi1 was known good... I know the power comes from the stator on the blue/yellow for Cdi1 and checked those wires and found the blue wire coming from the stator was also brittle and broke very easily.. recrimped...
Tested again with spark now on all 3!
In total, I've had to recrimp 6 connectors going to the terminal post, and repair 3 wires that were pinched or the insulation slightly damaged.

I need to now dial in the carbs and idle screw, but I'm glad to finally be past this major hurdle..

A couple of other things I've done recently:
Fuel line was leaking slightly on the side of the engine.. I replaced that one.. the only one left to replace is from the pump to the carb. Will do that once I get everything dialed in, just to be thorough. Ill probably add a second k&n inline filter right there as well right before it goes into the carb.

Replaced the fuel pump diaphragm.. old one looked ok, but I already had it so I did it.

I found that my fuel vent was clogged and creating pressure in my fuel tank.. a lot of sand seemed to come out of it.. I just poked it as much as possible with a metal rod and cleared out as much as possible from the outside.. once it cleared, I heard the pressure release.. this has probably always been clogged and it was especially noticable when I took it to shaver lake at 5500 ft elevation and when I opened the gas cap, it sprayed out a bit.. I noticed lately that every time I took the cap off, it released pressure.. that's now fixed..

 

[Jiggz]

I ordered the DVA adapter yesterday, set to be here Tuesday... But: I HAVE SPARK ON ALL 3 FINALLY!!!

Here's the sequence of events:
Wife told me she only saw spark on #1 when I turned ignition (as mentioned)...
I decided to roll back to my original CDI units, but wiring in number 3 coil into the cdi2 secondary unused connector as originally was the plan (as I knew this was providing spark previously)...
I checked all the wire crimps and found the trigger wires for #2 and #3 were brittle at the crimp and broke off very easily...
It started up but I only had spark on #3 this time.. seemed strange since Cdi1 was known good... I know the power comes from the stator on the blue/yellow for Cdi1 and checked those wires and found the blue wire coming from the stator was also brittle and broke very easily.. recrimped...
Tested again with spark now on all 3!
In total, I've had to recrimp 6 connectors going to the terminal post, and repair 3 wires that were pinched or the insulation slightly damaged.

I need to now dial in the carbs and idle screw, but I'm glad to finally be past this major hurdle..

A couple of other things I've done recently:
Fuel line was leaking slightly on the side of the engine.. I replaced that one.. the only one left to replace is from the pump to the carb. Will do that once I get everything dialed in, just to be thorough. Ill probably add a second k&n inline filter right there as well right before it goes into the carb.

Replaced the fuel pump diaphragm.. old one looked ok, but I already had it so I did it.

I found that my fuel vent was clogged and creating pressure in my fuel tank.. a lot of sand seemed to come out of it.. I just poked it as much as possible with a metal rod and cleared out as much as possible from the outside.. once it cleared, I heard the pressure release.. this has probably always been clogged and it was especially noticable when I took it to shaver lake at 5500 ft elevation and when I opened the gas cap, it sprayed out a bit.. I noticed lately that every time I took the cap off, it released pressure.. that's now fixed..

Congrats! You see winners never quit but instead pushes some more. Enjoy and just keep the DVA for future use . . . hopefully not on this motor but on a different project.

As for fuel filter between the pump and carbs, just use a cheapo Fram plastic see through G2 or G3 fuel filter (check the hose coupling size) . It's more of a troubleshooting tool than actually a fuel filter. The see through is the key for fuel related troubleshooting.

 

[sidewing]

Took the boat out for a couple hours this evening. Set the idle RPM to around 800 and in gear to 700. I have my carbs set to 1.5 turns out.. the boat is running great! My speedometer isn't functional, but my Garmin GPS fish finder says I'm going 27mph with about 500lbs of people in the boat.. Much better than the 7mph to 8mph I was getting before..
I'm using a cheap clip on tachometer and it looked like it went all the way to 6000 to 6500rpm at WOT.
I ran it for about 5 minutes at WOT.. then I turned it off and when I tried to restart it, it wouldn't start.. after it sat for about 3 to 5 mins, it started up..
I didn't have any issues starting after that. I tested it a few more times and I had to turn the key 2 or 3 times but it would start fine..
Any thoughts on why this may be happening? Not a major issue that I'm concerned about, but I would like to get it dialed in so it starts on a dime Everytime... We had a blast on the boat this evening.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Idle: 800 in gear, 1050-1100 .
Do the Starting Fluid test. Start the motor, spray SF around the intake side of the motor, under the packs/coils and the base of the carbs. If the spray makes a difference in the way it runs?? then it's sucking air somewhere.

 

[Jiggz]

Took the boat out for a couple hours this evening. Set the idle RPM to around 800 and in gear to 700. I have my carbs set to 1.5 turns out.. the boat is running great! My speedometer isn't functional, but my Garmin GPS fish finder says I'm going 27mph with about 500lbs of people in the boat.. Much better than the 7mph to 8mph I was getting before..
I'm using a cheap clip on tachometer and it looked like it went all the way to 6000 to 6500rpm at WOT.
I ran it for about 5 minutes at WOT.. then I turned it off and when I tried to restart it, it wouldn't start.. after it sat for about 3 to 5 mins, it started up..
I didn't have any issues starting after that. I tested it a few more times and I had to turn the key 2 or 3 times but it would start fine..
Any thoughts on why this may be happening? Not a major issue that I'm concerned about, but I would like to get it dialed in so it starts on a dime Everytime... We had a blast on the boat this evening.

Sometimes, the problem is fuel or it could be idle setting. As Jerry mentioned, usually idle rpm in gear is around 700-750. Idle in neutral is usually around 1000-1100 rpm. It is critical that the idle is set properly, as if there's no opening on the throttle shutter (very low idle setting), starting makes it difficult. And requires putting the throttle control in high speed idle first before it'll start. If you have no knowledge of the so called high speed idle, spend some time reading some other posts.
If you had the clear see through fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carbs, when the motor fails to start, this should be your first indicator if fuel delivery is the problem. It would be empty.
Lastly, when motor is warm or hot, DO NOT ENGAGE THE CHOKE when starting as this will cause flooding in the carbs. If flooding is suspected, try starting the motor with the control throttle in high speed idle position.

 

[sidewing]

Sounds like low idle is a probable culprit. I'll tweak it some more next time I take it out to the lake. Maybe this weekend if not sooner. I have a can of starter fluid to test for air leak as well