5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

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StephanF

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I have a year 2000 5.7 GSI which will not hold it's revs, even in nuetral.
If I throttle up to any setting, ie 2000 revs, the engine will run at this for about 5 seconds then drop back to near stalling, then recover to 2000 revs for 5 seconds then drop back to near stall etc. in a continuous loop.
This started happening after my local engineer replaced the injectors, because of minor problem with a slight loss of a power over the last few years.
As a result of this new problem I asked him to replace the original injectors, but this new problem remained.
Fortunately my cousin has the same engine in his boat (although 1999) & has let me try swapping parts to help diagnose the problem. Here's a list of parts I've tried changing, without solving the problem:
The whole carb body, including injectors, fuel pressure regulator, TP sensor, IAC valve.
The ECU, Ignition Controll module & MAP sensor.

I've also tested fuel pressure & although the low pressure pump seems high at 11 PSI, the high pressure pump is 31 PSI which i believe is in spec.
Both readings fluctuated by only about 0.5 PSI at different revs & under load.

I've also done a compression test & a spark test & checked electrical continuity of wiring between the various sensors & the ECU connectors.

Something I've noticed is that if i disconnect the MAP sensor, the revs do not surge as above, however there is reduced power when under load.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.:confused:
 

Don S

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

You need to get it hooked up to a diagnostic computer to find out what is going on. It may not set a code, so the inputs and outputs of items will have to be compared to typical values shown in the manual.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Unplug or replug your IAC...overly simple but it takes a second and it does control idle....Can you show what you think the maf sensor is?
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

You need to get it hooked up to a diagnostic computer to find out what is going on. It may not set a code, so the inputs and outputs of items will have to be compared to typical values shown in the manual.
Thanks Don, I forgot to mention that I had already tried a diagnostic laptop & that it didn't bring up any error codes, however at the time I didn't have a manual to compare values with. I've since downloaded an EFI Diagnostics manual which seems to have them. Not sure when I'll be able to get hold of the laptop again though.
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Unplug or replug your IAC...overly simple but it takes a second and it does control idle....Can you show what you think the maf sensor is?
Thanks Tail_Gunner, I have already tried this, but it seems to make little or no difference. Something I didn't mention before is that it does idle smoothly.
What I refered to as the MAP sensor, is attached to the inside of the Starboard exhaust riser, to the front of the ECU & has a small diametre (1/4" internal)rubber hose connected to the back of the carb body.
 

gbeltran

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Where are you located? If you're near Los Angeles I've got a scanner, I might be able to give you a hand. Post where you're located folks, might find some friends along the way.
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Where are you located? If you're near Los Angeles I've got a scanner, I might be able to give you a hand. Post where you're located folks, might find some friends along the way.
Very generous offer gbeltran, unfortunately I'm the other side of the pond!
Jersey, Channel Islands, UK.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

A few things

1. check your map sensor voltage for erratic volatage jumps
2. check your coolant sensor for voltage and proper operation
3.check your altenator for a solid 13 volts output....you may also check what your battery reads under power
4 doulbe check your fuel pressure reg on the TB....Is it in backwards?
5. Have you doulbe check your IC module...Its in the base of the dist
You have said you have a good idle with the iac unplugged???? Did i get that right
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

A few things

1. check your map sensor voltage for erratic volatage jumps
2. check your coolant sensor for voltage and proper operation
3.check your altenator for a solid 13 volts output....you may also check what your battery reads under power
4 doulbe check your fuel pressure reg on the TB....Is it in backwards?
5. Have you doulbe check your IC module...Its in the base of the dist
You have said you have a good idle with the iac unplugged???? Did i get that right
OK Tail_Gunner some answers to your questions:
1. I haven't checked the output from the MAP, but I have borrowed another known worker to try & made no difference.
2. Again I haven't checked the output voltage of the coolant sensor, but I've checked the resistances when cold & once warmed up & they seem to be in the right range as compared to those in the EFI diagnostics manual.
3. The Alternator is charging OK & battery voltage when running is 12.5v - 13v
4. I haven't checked the fuel pressure reg, but I've swapped the whole TB with another known worker & again no difference.
5. I have changed the IC module for another known good one.

When I said that the idle is smooth, that is with the IAC plugged in. The surging only starts when the revs are raised to anything over about 1000 rpm.

I think I need to check these voltages while the problem is happening, which presumably means hooking up to a diagnostic PC as Don suggested.

Many thanks again for your input.
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

You need to get it hooked up to a diagnostic computer to find out what is going on. It may not set a code, so the inputs and outputs of items will have to be compared to typical values shown in the manual.
Hi Don, It's been quite a while since first posting this problem, but I've eventualy got hold of a diagnostic laptop again.
Only thing is, it's a Mercury tool, but we managed to find an ECU match which seems to work fine.
I've compared voltages & temperatures with those in the EFI dignostics manual & I can't see anything out of spec.
We've taken a couple of diagnostic recordings, one at idle & one trying to hold 1800 RPM with the continuous looping described above.
Is there anyone I can send these recordings to for further analasys? I guess they can only be replayed using the Mercury diagnostic software.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Thanks Tail_Gunner, I have already tried this, but it seems to make little or no difference. Something I didn't mention before is that it does idle smoothly.
What I refered to as the MAP sensor, is attached to the inside of the Starboard exhaust riser, to the front of the ECU & has a small diametre (1/4" internal)rubber hose connected to the back of the carb body.

THis maybe be a typo but the map is not linked to a riser...
 
Joined
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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Excellent Tread!

Stephan I have the exact same engine and I too am having the same problem. I have performed the same tests with no luck in resolving performance issues. If I disconnect my map sensor and apply 10in. of vacuum the engine idles smooth. However when I re insert the vacuum line coming from the backside of the TBI to the MAP sensor the engine stalls and the code I get is 33 MAP Sensor Voltage Too High. If I leave the vacuum connected it is very hard to even start.

I hope you find out the problem. I have replaced many items with the same results. The motor still wont run correctly.

I am located in San Diego,Ca.
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Thanks for the info Hurricane 197, it's good to know I'm not the only one with this problem!
I've now asked my local Volvo Penta agents to have a look, they say they can send off diagnostics to the factory, so I'll let you know if they come up with anything.
 

ratbag

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

i had the same problem this summer with my 2000 5.7 gsi. mine turned out to be the fuel cell. $700 and its running great again. there's a problem with paint on the inside of the cell coming off with ethenol gas. it started making a whining sound. i thought it was the alternator but it was the fuel cell.
 

StephanF

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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

i had the same problem this summer with my 2000 5.7 gsi. mine turned out to be the fuel cell. $700 and its running great again. there's a problem with paint on the inside of the cell coming off with ethenol gas. it started making a whining sound. i thought it was the alternator but it was the fuel cell.
Great handle ratbag!
I did have the pump replaced a few years ago for this exact problem, however this time round there isn't any whining & I've stripped it to make sure there are no flakes of paint or other dirt in there.
Also, I connected up a fuel pressure guage to the low & high pressure pumps & they are within spec even under load.
Thanks for your reply though.
 
Joined
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Re: 5.7 GSI PEFS Revs surge & drop back to idle in continuous loop.

Hey Stephan any luck with your troubleshooting?
 
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