305 to 350 build questions

gr8shot

Seaman
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May 30, 2019
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Sounds like a fun project

The cam in a 5.0 and 5.7 mercruiser carb engines have the same part number -431-811658 so you could swap the cam and lifters if the oil in old engine isn't water fouled. Alternative I suspect the truck cam will work fine as well.

A couple of other thoughts -

there are cast iron 4 bbl intakes available that might save you $125 vs an edelbrock. The 1409 will work well for this application and is easy to tune based on reading plugs.

If the block was cracked I'd plan on replace the exhaust manifolds and elbows as they likely froze too. I think the flywheel and harmonic balancer are different between the 5.0 and 5.7. If yours came with a stick shift flywheel that will work though.

The 5.0 and 5.7 are typically offered with different drive ratios, very likely you will need to step up 2" in pitch to keep wot rpm in line. When I swapped my 4.3 for a 5.0 for the same reason I kept the 4.3 ratio drive just went from a 19 to 21 pitch.

I ran the motor for a bit, manifolds looked good, no cracks or leaks at all, so I'll keep them. Water just leaked out of the block lol. Can always get new ones later if I do find a crack. But for now I winterized them since it's getting cold here.

The reading I've done says that as long as I'm replacing a vortec motor with another vortec motor, I can swap out the flywheel from the 305 to the 350. Should be the same for the balancer. I believe both motors use the same crank.

How would a fella go about checking what drive ratio I have? Is it stamped or listed on the drive somewhere? Or how do I figure that out? It's got a really nice stainless 4 blade prop right now. Would be a shame if that won't work for me.
 

gr8shot

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Yes, the stock cam for the 305/350 used the same cam 431-811658

GM made truck and car motors. The truck motor used a cam to give it more low end torque. The truck cam is the same cam that is used in the boat

https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassembly/31846/4856/190

Everything I'm finding shows that they are not the same cams. Pretty close, honestly close enough that I'm not sure you'd notice much difference. But the marine cam is a bit more aggressive, just a little.
 

alldodge

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Everything I'm finding shows that they are not the same cams. Pretty close, honestly close enough that I'm not sure you'd notice much difference. But the marine cam is a bit more aggressive, just a little.

MY point is, Merc did not have a 350 line at which GM made motors to Merc specs. Merc bought crate truck motors and then added their parts. There is just not that many motors needed for the marine industry counting all the builders (Merc, VP, Crusader, Idmar).

There is normally to GM lines, one for cars and one for trucks. Trucks need more low end torque then cars. Agree, the two cam specs are different, I'm just saying your original motor used the standard truck cam 811658
 

Bondo

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Everything I'm finding shows that they are not the same cams. Pretty close, honestly close enough that I'm not sure you'd notice much difference. But the marine cam is a bit more aggressive, just a little.

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,....... Cams don't really come into play, til ya start talkin' "Hot Rod" cams,.....

Which generally, boat's don't like,......
 

Scott06

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How would a fella go about checking what drive ratio I have? Is it stamped or listed on the drive somewhere? Or how do I figure that out? It's got a really nice stainless 4 blade prop right now. Would be a shame if that won't work for me.

Side of drive upper near vent plug should be in the sticker and also stamped in drive under it. Likely yours is a 1.62:1. All depends on where the current prop put WOT rpm with the 305, really I would wait u til you have it all back together use the prop you have and see where the rpms land. Adjust pitch based on performance.
 

gr8shot

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MY point is, Merc did not have a 350 line at which GM made motors to Merc specs. Merc bought crate truck motors and then added their parts. There is just not that many motors needed for the marine industry counting all the builders (Merc, VP, Crusader, Idmar).

There is normally to GM lines, one for cars and one for trucks. Trucks need more low end torque then cars. Agree, the two cam specs are different, I'm just saying your original motor used the standard truck cam 811658

Understood. I've seen the discussions where guys will swear that a marine engine is "so much tougher than a truck engine". Nah, same assembly lines, same blocks, same bearings, same crank, rods, pistons, heads etc. I've worked in some aspect of automotive related manufacturing most of my career. See it all the time.

Spent a while in the automotive filter industry. Watched the same filters run down the same production line. 100% identical components. Filters painted a different color and sold as marine or aviation filters cost a ton more, when it's all the same stuff. Just a different paint job and different box. Same guts. Different perception = different price. Much like a marine SBC.
 

gr8shot

Seaman
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May 30, 2019
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Side of drive upper near vent plug should be in the sticker and also stamped in drive under it. Likely yours is a 1.62:1. All depends on where the current prop put WOT rpm with the 305, really I would wait u til you have it all back together use the prop you have and see where the rpms land. Adjust pitch based on performance.

Thats my plan at this point. No need to worry about any of it until the boat is back in the water anyway. Close enough to winter here (Nebraska) that boating season is over. So no need to worry about gearing and props until probably May or June of next year :( Going to be a long time to wait to get this thing in the water sadly.


That being said, I'm picking up the motor this evening. Probably won't have too much time to tear into it until next week at the earliest. But I might start a little build thread for folks to follow along. Have only seen one good build thread on a 305 to 350 swap, but tons of questions. So maybe I'll try and add some value to the forum here!
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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you already have a thread going, so no need to start another

as for the whole marine block being stronger, the only slight truth to that is Mercruiser now uses GMPP blocks vs production (truck) blocks for the 502 as there never was a 502 production (truck) offering. there is a slight bit more material in the 502 (8.2) cylinder walls for more bore options vs the 7.4 and 8.1 variants. small block castings were identical if it came in a truck, boat, or trash pump. just like todays LT engines

the long-blocks coming down the tonawanda line didnt know if they were going into a truck, a natural gas generator, or a trash pump or a marine motor until final stages
 

gr8shot

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May 30, 2019
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Got the motor picked up Wednesday night. Picking up an engine stand for it this afternoon. Not much else to report so far. But I'll update here as I make progress.
 

gr8shot

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May 30, 2019
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It was gorgeous out on Saturdays so I got the heads off the "new to me" motor. Things look pretty good to my untrained eyes. Didn't see any cracks between the valves on the heads. Didn't see any abnormal wear in the cylinder walls. Some strange buildup on the plugs and intake valves in a couple cylinders. See pics. I'm thinking this engine may have just had bad intake gaskets, not a blown head gasket. I couldn't see any evidence of a leak path anywhere on either head. But it didn't come with an intake or the intake gaskets so very likely it was an intake gasket leaking coolant into the oil, not a head gasket. I'm going to see if the one local machine shop can get the heads in and gone through anytime soon. And then the fun starts, ordering parts!
 

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scoflaw

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It's an oil burner for sure. Might as well go through the bottom end as well, new bearings and rering
 

gr8shot

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It's an oil burner for sure. Might as well go through the bottom end as well, new bearings and rering

What makes you say that? I'm pretty new to motor tear downs. Plenty competent mechanically, just never torn one down or built one.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Mic the bores, if you can catch your finger on the ridge, rebore needed

Does look like oil coking in the combustion chamber
 

gr8shot

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May 30, 2019
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Mic the bores, if you can catch your finger on the ridge, rebore needed

Does look like oil coking in the combustion chamber

Once I got the carbon out of the top 1/8" or so of the bores, they felt good and smooth. What am I looking for with the mic? Just out of round-ness? Or what? I can bring one home from work and measure some stuff.
 

scoflaw

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Jun 2, 2010
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With all that burnt oil and vertical scratches on your cylinder walls you should tear it down and let your machine shop measure your stuff. I'm sure those cast piston skirts look rough
 

Rick Stephens

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Aug 13, 2013
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A lot of blow-by deposits in the rest of the engine, along the rockers and the valley. It is typical and exactly what to expect from a pull. The advice is quality - pull it down and do a rebuild. You will feel a lot better about it. Unless you plan to drop a motor in it and sell the boat off in a year, over time you will feel a lot better about it.
 

gr8shot

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May 30, 2019
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A lot of blow-by deposits in the rest of the engine, along the rockers and the valley. It is typical and exactly what to expect from a pull. The advice is quality - pull it down and do a rebuild. You will feel a lot better about it. Unless you plan to drop a motor in it and sell the boat off in a year, over time you will feel a lot better about it.

Thats my struggle. It's a good bit bigger and nicer than our current boat, and the wife and I wanted something bigger. So we may end up liking this boat and wanting to keep it. But we've also talked quite a bit about selling both boats to go to a pontoon. Right now we don't know, as this new boat hasn't been on the water yet. I bought it a couple days before the first really hard freeze of the year, and boating season is over here already.

Knowing how well these vortec motors typically run, and how long they last, I'm leaning towards keeping it cheap and just dropping in the boat if the bottom end bearings look decent. I know the right thing would be a full rebuild. But if we do decide to keep the boat, and the motor shows signs of looking tired, thats always something I could do over another winter. I don't want to half ass it to the point of it being junk on the first start up. But to my untrained eyes, I don't see anything that would lead me to believe the motor is total junk. Used, yes. But not toast.

Also, I'm not a hardcore speed junky on the water either. Most of what we'll do is either idling around, fishing, or pulling our kids in a tube. A rare blast across the lake, but it's a really small lake, so even that is only a few minutes, and with our current boat, I just get it on plane and kind of let it hang in it's happy place, I don't push it to the breaking point ever. So I feel like I'll be fine with a used motor unless I find significant damage in the bottom end.
 
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