2012 VP 300 C-A Exhaust manifolds getting too hot - DTC 441 & 442

muc

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I Thought that's what I said...if there are air pockets not filled with coolant, then you have hot spots...
My mistake, thought you were saying that if the air pocket was near the sensor that would cause the sensor to read hot. And of course, that's not true.
 

Toddavid

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I Thought that's what I said...if there are air pockets not filled with coolant, then you have hot spots...
Sensors reading air temp are not reading actual coolant temp or affected metal temp. The sensor is sitting in an air pocket which appears cooler than the surrounding metal because air does not transfer heat as effectively as coolant/water.
 

Donald0039

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An exhaust elbow that was used in salt water can look great on the outside but could be all rotted out under the hoses where you can't see and the ONLY way to tell if your cooling passages are open is to take it apart, if you are suspecting a blockage due to hot running temps. In your case the manifolds are on the AF system but the elbows, are still raw water cooled, if they are getting clogged, maybe that is contributing to your elevated temps.
look at these Merc dry joint elbows, they look fine except for what's hidden under the rubber exhaust hoses:View attachment 370929
and here is an OMC one piece V6 manifold I used to have on mine after 5.5 seasons in salt water, compared to new....not too bad but you can see one of the 4 exit ports is blocked with corrosion. Probably about 200 hrs of use. By 7 seasons it would have caused a major exhaust overheating problem.
View attachment 370930
So in your case I'm just guessing of course but trapped air and/or corrosion could be the cause, even if they look good outside.
With the old style Volvo and Merc wet joint exhaust as soon at they started to show rust stains on the outside you had to take em apart because that meant they could be leaking on the inside which on those systems would put water into the center exhaust passage.
In fresh water regions this is mostly a non-issue from what I hear but here in the salt pond it is regular maintenance, or else you risk engine damage from rotted out exhaust parts and safety risk due to burning up the rubber exhaust hoses.
The exhaust elbow is only 125F so it's the proper temp.

I want to get by the current problem with overheating exhaust manifold. Then pull the exhaust elbows. The exhaust elbows are OEM only. Over $1000 each. Probably because of having a catalytic converter between the exhaust manifold and exhaust elbows.
 

Donald0039

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Got to the boat today and one of the caps in the cooling pressure test kit fit so I did a cooling system test.

Lost 2 lbs in 30 min.

Expansion tank was down only 1 PT from last test run where is overheated.

So one of my thoughts for a potential problem was I had lost a lot of coolant during the last test run through the heat
Got to the boat today and one of the caps in the cooling pressure test kit fit so I did a cooling system pressure test.

Lost 2 lbs in 30 min.

Expansion tank was down only 1 PT from last test run where it overheated.

So one of my thoughts for a potential problem was I had quickly lost a lot of coolant during the last test run through the heat exchanger and it overheated due to being low on coolant. I now do not think that is a possibility.

Now I am thinking air in the system and the pint of coolant that the expansion tank was low was due to air in the exhaust manifolds. Probably some more air in the exhaust manifold but not sure.

I am thinking the loss of 2 lbs in 30 min is OK and not a leak I need to be concerned with.
I tried the cooling system pressure tester on my 2015 F250 pickup and it lost almost 2 lbs in maybe 45 minutes. So I am thinking it's a defective cooling system pressure tester.
 

muc

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The exhaust elbow is only 125F so it's the proper temp.

I want to get by the current problem with overheating exhaust manifold. Then pull the exhaust elbows. The exhaust elbows are OEM only. Over $1000 each. Probably because of having a catalytic converter between the exhaust manifold and exhaust elbows.
Make sure to read the workshop manual first. There are some parts that can't be reused.
 

Donald0039

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Workshop manuals ordered, although website has many glitches and they appear to being shipped from Sweden.

Hopefully rain will stop soon in DE.

I have a better air powered cooling system pressure tester with a ball valve to shut off the air supply once the proper pressure is reached. Little chance of leaks in the actual pressure tester. Will use some lubricant and the cap wrench that came with the cooling system pressure tester kit I first bought. Will test at 12 psi if I do not see any markings on the cap.

After a cooling system pressure test I will try eliminating the air (that I think is there) in the exhaust manifolds by running at 2000 RPM for a few minutes.

Have a coolant test kit to fill with coolant and mail to WIX to see if there is any salt water in the coolant.

Maybe winterize and pull heat exchanger for testing and cleaning. Boating season is over.
 

Donald0039

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So with rain over I got back to my boat. Got an air powered setup (which I really like as it has a valve to isolate the air supply after reaching the proper pressure), put some water & Dawn on the cap gasket to lubricate and used the adapter cap key to tighten the adapter cap. This time absolutely no loss of PSI in 20 min.

Then ran the engine for about 5 min between 1800 and 2000 RPM and then shut it down.

When you are trying to get air out of the cooling by running the engine at a higher speed than idle does the air get pushed out quickly kind of in one push or does it go out slowly little by little?
 
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Lou C

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I haven’t had a boat with closed cooling so I can’t say how they behave but vehicles bleed out air gradually you wind up having to run them for a while to get it all out. That leak we saw from the top of the manifold is that fixed now?
 

Donald0039

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I haven’t had a boat with closed cooling so I can’t say how they behave but vehicles bleed out air gradually you wind up having to run them for a while to get it all out. That leak we saw from the top of the manifold is that fixed now?
That hose is from the riser so it's sea water. It's scheduled for spring 2023 in my notebook.
 

Lou C

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Ah yes I remember
BTW are you also on the old BoaterEd board? I thought I saw the same question being asked there…
At any rate when you do solve it that will be great information for someone in the future…
 

Donald0039

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Ah yes I remember
BTW are you also on the old BoaterEd board? I thought I saw the same question being asked there…
At any rate when you do solve it that will be great information for someone in the future…
I asked the same question on a few forums. One being BoaterEd.com. It was a very active forum when George and Lou were around and ran a marine parts company. I am active also on Bobistheoilguy.com. You have to be a pedantic oil guy to enjoy that forum. They have a boating sub-topic.
 

Lou C

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Yes I still visit BoaterEd and do read BITOG
It’s actually amusing to see how obsessed people are with motor oil. I do find oil analyses very interesting I’ll admit…
 

Donald0039

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Yes I still visit BoaterEd and do read BITOG
It’s actually amusing to see how obsessed people are with motor oil. I do find oil analyses very interesting I’ll admit…
I routinely do oil analysis (UOA) for the oil in my diesel pickup. But I run the oil for 16K miles typically. However the oil sump is 14 QTs and I use a bypass oil filter that filters down to 2 microns. You will see many of my UOAs for diesel engines and older ones for gas engines. Wife says I have way too many posts on BITOG.
 

Lou C

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I’ve done a few on the boat and my 07 Jeep. The ones done on the boat actually predicted the head gasket failure I had in 2016. It had overheated in 2013 but ran fine the next 2 seasons. Then at the end of the ‘16 season the head gaskets started leaking and let water in a cyl. An oil analysis done in 2015 showed sodium in the oil (raw water cooled in salt water). I think with boats might be a good idea to do one at the end of each season that way repairs can be done over the winter if needed…
 

Donald0039

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With a boat with closed cooling you could analyze the engine oil, coolant and outdrive gear oil.

I have a WIX coolant analysis kit to use before winter.
 

Lou C

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Good to know what you’re dealing with before bad things happen!
 

Donald0039

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Now do I do a couple of 10 minute runs at 2000 RPM (with cooling time between each run) to try and get the air out or drain the coolant into a clean bucket and then vacuum fill it from the clean bucket of used coolant?
 

muc

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Now do I do a couple of 10 minute runs at 2000 RPM (with cooling time between each run) to try and get the air out or drain the coolant into a clean bucket and then vacuum fill it from the clean bucket of used coolant?
Yes,
I would recommend that you hook up Diacom and watch the exhaust temperature and run at higher rpm if temperatures stay ok. Best to be in the water when doing this.
 

Donald0039

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I used my cell phone camera to enlarge the directions on the expansion tank. Should have read it first. It says to fill the expansion tank and run the engine at 1500 RPM for 10 minutes.
 

Donald0039

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Yes,
I would recommend that you hook up Diacom and watch the exhaust temperature and run at higher rpm if temperatures stay ok. Best to be in the water when doing this.
Would my IR temp be as good as using the Diacom? I have to take my laptop into the cabin to be able to read it. Kind of a PIA. IR temp gun is a lot easier.
 
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