2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

[webberz]

First, this site has helped me with my previous boat and I am thankful for a community of experienced boaters

I have recently bought a 97 Rinker Captiva 232. The boat was repowered by the previous owner in 2010 with a 5.7 carb GM 350 from Michigan Motorz.

Here's the issue. The boat ran great out on the lake for about an hour at 3k to 3500 rpms. As I was coming back to dock through a no wake zone, the engine started to sputter and then died. Initially I was able to get it to turn back over and idle through for another couple hundred yards before this happened again.

My initial first thoughts, bad fuel filter, vapor lock, bad fuel pump, bad fuel pressure/oil pressure safety switch (couldn't merc figure something else out for that?).

Solutions thus far: I have ripped the entire fuel system apart. I am able suck gas through line. (Yes, the taste of fuel in my mouth is awesome). I have replaced the fuel filter, the pressure safety switch with #87-864252A01 which apparently replaces 87-805024, which was probably less expensive I have eliminated the fuel filter, the check valve, and tried running gas lines straight through pump right into carb. The motor would turn, run, and after a minute or two at idle, would stall back out. Oil pressure on dash reads 40psi. I have ripped all spark plugs and tested compression. 155 in each cylinder. Oil level seems good. I really think at this point it is the fuel pump or carb. When I open throttle on carb I do not get a mist. Initially while it was running last night it seemed to be dripping fuel into the intake. Then it just became bone dry. I did notice some water droplets on top of one of the butterflies.

Conditions as of last night. After a bottle of wine and listening to this pos start, run for a couple minutes, and then stall, then not run at all unless I dripped a little gas down into the throat. I decided to rip the carb off which is an Edelbrock 1409 model. If someone can add their expertise in tuning this, testing this, etc., I would really appreciate that I am convinced this is a fuel delivery issue. It is really upsetting me. Though the fuel pump sounds like it runs, it sounds like crap. Anyone have a suggestion for a replacement. I have a carter 4-7 psi electronic pump on there now. I'm ready to replace it even though it seems to pump gas. Maybe someone has a way to test this without blowing myself up? Seemed dangerous and odd to direct line it. I did bypass the safety switch briefly, I can hear it run and it seems to push fuel through. If someone has a cross reference sheet for parts and supplies, that would be awesome!!!


I am banging my head against everything!:facepalm:

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE BOATING COMMUNITY!!!

Ryan Wolf

 

[LiquidC]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

When I open throttle on carb I do not get a mist.

Sounds like you need to clean out or rebuild your carb. I'd give Edelbrock a call, support is really helpful, they'll give you the PN for the correct rebuild kit.

You pump the throttle down and you don't get a spray into the carb? You may have sucked in some dirt into the fuel inlet of the carb.

I'd also pour out the contents of the fuel/water separator into a glass jar to see if you have water in your fuel. Is that fresh gas you are running on?

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Thank you. I did call Edelbrock this morning. I hate to tear it apart to find out it is something else, but I am suspecting that dirt may be the issue. The fuel on the bottom of the carb looked like varnish. I couldn't tell if it was oil at first or what. Would a local autozone carry rebuilds for a 1409 kit? Just thought I'd ask. Also, wondered if someone might be able to advise if I can use an off the shelf fuel pump? Autozone has one for $50 compared to $150. The psi in the Mr Gasket model is 4-7. I know edelbrock recommended no more than 6.5 and informed me that there are regulators available? Thanks again for your response

 

[LiquidC]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

NO ... do not use an automotive fuel pump. Aside from being dangerous, the USCG will nail you for it if & when you get a random inspection.

Carter makes a nice fuel pump, actually just ordered one myself. Provides 6 psi, and is intended for marine applications.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-P4389

Autozone does carry the rebuild kits, just make sure you get the right one. Or order it along with the pump from Summit. If the fuel looks like varnish on the bottom of the carb, then your jets are probably clogged. You'll have to clean it out. Edelbrock has some good tech videos too, or follow the instructions in the rebuild kit.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/tech_center/install/tech_vids.shtml

The kit on Summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1477/

-LC

 

[SeadawgVB]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Remember that the oil pressure switch gets bypassed when you turn the key to the "start" position, allowing the fuel pump to run for a few seconds until the switch is back into the "run" position. A quick check would be to temporarily bypass the oil pressure switch. This issue kicked my but for a long while a few years back.
See if the engine will run longer than a few seconds with the switch bypassed (on the hose of course, not on the lake / river / ocean).

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

@LiquidC-Thank you for the advice. I guess I'll order and wait Hate waiting! I was planning on tearing the fuel pump apart and inspecting it further. It does make a slight rattle sound. I am guessing that it is probably shot. I'm curious to know how long the previous owner had it on?
@SeadawgVB-When I bypass the switch, it will run, but it just doesn't seem like it is building pressure, or maybe not maintaining pressure. When I put the new switch on I could hear the pump running. I'm bypassing the solenoid for right now and just tapping the starter. I'm pointing the finger at the fuel pump, but I have read that something else may be preventing fuel from flowing freely. Like crap in the gas tank.

I do really really really appreciate the information! I am just thankful to get some feedback as I try to finger this one out Hopefully you two will be enjoying the nice weekend while I cuss like a sailor in my driveway The neighbors were getting a little upset. Nothing like the loud roar of that 350 with thru haul exhaust

It is odd how it seems to run, then chokes out. Just sputters, then quits. At least my last boat ran. I probably shouldn't mention that I just got my truck back after the pin popped from the tongue.

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

The links are great too!! Thank you very much. I will keep you guys posted. Much appreciated. I was trying to load a picture, but kept getting an error.

 

[SeadawgVB]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Mine rattles when it's running. Currently no fuel issues. My upper unit is leaking oil and I'm waiting on the big spanner delivered. No boating this weekend guess I'll inspect my hubs on the trailer and swapout a bad exhaust blower while I wait for my delivery.

Oh there's also that plum tree in the front yard that the wife wants removed. Looks like I have my marching orders for the long weekend. I do have a BBQ scheduled.

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

I just replaced the outdrive with an SE drive. There is so much metal in the unit I don't know what to say other than POS! At least it does engage, for now. All new bellows, gimbal. I just put new wheel bearings in my trailer. I imagined myself on the lake with a boat full of women in thin bathing outfits, but instead I'll be confined to my engine compartment. How I wish I had a big enough garage with a/c in it! I hate to order a pump, then find out it wasn't the pump, but at least if it isn't I guess I'll have two I can't even take a motorcycle ride because some woman ran over it in the parking lot at the gym 4 weeks ago and the insurance company totalled it out! When it rains it pours Maybe I'll get the canoe back out.

 

[LiquidC]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

I wish I could be on a lake this weekend. My 350 is just about ready to go into the boat ... only after I finish replacing my stringers & the floor :facepalm:

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

So I think I'm in the same place as before. The boat will run for a couple minutes. Then for no reason seems to shut off. I put a new bypass switch in, I am almost sure that isn't the problem. The fuel pump seems to run, and even if I bypass pump it will still shut off. I'm lost.

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

I did order a new carter pump last night. I am suspecting that it is the pump. After several hours in the baking sun, I have decided it is the pump. What happens is the pump seems to work for a short period, then even if it is running, is unable to pump fuel through line. I also suspect the anti siphon valve, which will also get replaced. If I bypass the oil pressure switch, the fuel is still not being pressured into the carb. I advance throttle and no gas through venturies. So the carb is drying up. The pump seems to pump and then quits for whatever reason. Like it is unable to produce pressure without fuel in pump. I tried with and without anti siphon that is on there now. I went with an ebay seller over summit. I may buy the rebuild kit for the carb as well. I also intend on tearing the fuel tank out if I can figure out how to get in there. As stated before, it just seems odd that this thing can run and then quit. I blew air back through the fuel line, I don't really suspet the fuel line, but I will post the results of new fuel pump.

So far, new oil pressure switch
new slave solenoid.
New pump
new fuel filter

Hope you guys had a great weekend

 

[LiquidC]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

I'd take a look at this, I believe Don made it:



Make sure the wiring to your starter is correct. And also check your fuel pump ground wire, and the purple wire at the alternator. Check to see if they're snug. I believe the Purple/Yellow wire provides power during cranking, and the Purple wire provides power while running.

I'd also hook up an voltmeter, and check the pins on the oil pressure switch. There should be 3 pins, one set is Normally Open, the other is Normally Closed. You want the purple wire to run through the Normally Open set. You should have 0 Ohms (or close to 0 ohms) with the motor running, and an open circuit with the motor off.

When does the motor "die?" If you had a chance to make a video it would be helpful. Carter fuel pumps can be noisy, if it's supplying enough fuel for the motor to start & stay running for a bit it makes me think it's not the fuel pump ...

LC

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Should have a new fuel pump tomorrow. I also plan to buy a new anti siphon barb from the local boat shop. Interestingly enough, not one of the local boat shops had an electrical pump available. Hopefully this what the problem is

I'm also noticing what I'm hoping someone else can resolve. I didn't get a picture of the fuel pump wiring, but the purple/yellow is grounded through the oil pressure switch. The fuel pump is hard wired right into the positive on the altenator. Should I run the purple/yellow into the starter? This boat did run great the first day I took it out on the lake, but I am wondering if the wiring issue has caused a two year old electric pump with what the previous owner said had about 30 hours on it. He put the motor in in June of 2010 and added the electric fuel pump at that time.

 

[88 206]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Thank you. I did call Edelbrock this morning. I hate to tear it apart to find out it is something else, but I am suspecting that dirt may be the issue. The fuel on the bottom of the carb looked like varnish. I couldn't tell if it was oil at first or what. Would a local autozone carry rebuilds for a 1409 kit? Just thought I'd ask. Also, wondered if someone might be able to advise if I can use an off the shelf fuel pump? Autozone has one for $50 compared to $150. The psi in the Mr Gasket model is 4-7. I know edelbrock recommended no more than 6.5 and informed me that there are regulators available? Thanks again for your response

I had an issue with my 1409 this spring, would not stay running. would crank and crank and then run for a few seconds and die. would keep running if I squirted fuel into carb. I replaced the antisiphon to no avail. fuel water seperator was clean no water or debris when I cut it open. The problem wound up being the fuel inlet screens were plugged in the carb. had to remove carb top, remove floats and needles and unscrew the seats which the screens were attatched to. replaced the filter and ran it. putting just a couple of hours on it and then pulling filter and cutting it open to have a look. prob. gonna have to clean tank but we'll see. maybe worth checking out on yours.

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

I had an issue with my 1409 this spring, would not stay running. would crank and crank and then run for a few seconds and die. would keep running if I squirted fuel into carb. I replaced the antisiphon to no avail. fuel water seperator was clean no water or debris when I cut it open. The problem wound up being the fuel inlet screens were plugged in the carb. had to remove carb top, remove floats and needles and unscrew the seats which the screens were attatched to. replaced the filter and ran it. putting just a couple of hours on it and then pulling filter and cutting it open to have a look. prob. gonna have to clean tank but we'll see. maybe worth checking out on yours.

I tore the carb apart. The carb actually didn't look too bad. It is only two years old. I didn't take the jets out only because I know that when I could get enough fuel pressure into the carb it would spray. I blew out the idle holes. Cleaned the rest of the carb. Lost a clip somewhere on the garage floor. The joys of being a home mech What I did notice is that the pump seems to have lost the ability to push gas up unless I suck gas into the pump and prime it. I don't think I should have to prime it, but I really don't know???? Once it is primed it seems to run for about 5 minutes or so until it has a pressure loss. If I direct wire it, still no gas coming through line. If I pull pump off and straight wire, suck gas into it, and stuff it into an empty gas can, it will pull gas through no problem. The interesting thing is that I took the anti siphon out and filter out and still had the same problem where the pump just didn't seem to have the ability to really pump? It is rated for 5psi, which by no means am I capable of blowing, and I stuck the hose in my mouth (I do not recommend Only for crazy people) and had little or no pressure pushing through the pump. I'm thinking the diaphram is bad. The guy probably never ran stable in it. That is probably why it ran good when I topped off the tank and then the diaphram failed shortly after. Only speculations at this point. I will be sitting and waiting for the post man tomorrow.

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Fuel pump. All that and it was just a fuel pump. The old pump just didn't have it in her anymore to keep the juice coming up top. Dropped the boat in the lake, started right up, didn't even have to pump the remote. Nothing like hearing 315 angry horses flowing through those pipes. I did quickly find out that the previous owner twisted the trim pump wires together with some electric tape because I couldn't put my prop down. Quick inspection of the pump showed some crappy electrical skills. Yesterday didn't make me feel so bad I need a float now because I noticed that didn't function properly. Thank you fellow boaters for your input!!! I appreciate it

 

[webberz]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Fuel pump. All that and it was just a fuel pump. The old pump just didn't have it in her anymore to keep the juice coming up top. Dropped the boat in the lake, started right up, didn't even have to pump the remote. Nothing like hearing 315 angry horses flowing through those pipes. I did quickly find out that the previous owner twisted the trim pump wires together with some electric tape because I couldn't put my prop down. Quick inspection of the pump showed some crappy electrical skills. Yesterday didn't make me feel so bad I need a float now because I noticed that didn't function properly. Thank you fellow boaters for your input!!! I appreciate it

Also, bought the new carter fuel pump off ebay for $109 and free ship

 

[LiquidC]

Re: 2010 GM 350 Engine Problems, Stalls, fuel delivery issue?

Good to hear you got it figured out.

I'd also keep an eye on anything that could have caused your old pump to go bad ... like debris coming from the filter assembly or tank. Fuel pumps usually have a long lifespan.