2003 Honda BF50 LRTA wiring help!!!!

[73 Dolphin]

I'm re powering a boat with a 2003 Honda BF50.
I bought a new 20 wire main cable for the Honda. The one that is on it ,I now discover, only had the main round plug wires and not the addition plug on the new cable with 6 wires.
Also the control side of the cable is completely different from the new cable.
To make matters worse, neither the attached cable or the new one I bought seem to match
the new side control I bought.
So I'm completely stumped.
Ive attached the engine connection and the other end of the cable in the first two attachments.

 

[73 Dolphin]

This is the new cable (not yet installed). It has the extra plug that I dont see on the old one. The control end is completely different.

 

[73 Dolphin]

And here's the connectors that I have on the side controls.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Finally so you get to see exactly what Im dealing with heres the new side control. I bought it locally. I have no idea of which model number it is. I dont know where on it to look for a model number.

 

[73 Dolphin]

The motor is a 2003.
The serial number is BAZS-3304031.
The cable is 32205-ZY6-015AH
The control - I have no idea of the model number.
Honestly looking for the side control needed for this motor
was so difficult with diagrams available for spare parts for the controls
but no where could I find the actual model number of the control
that the parts were for.
Like I said I cant find a serial number on the new one so have no idea
if its compatible or could be made to be.
The two connectors coming off the control do physically fit into two
of the 5 connectors coming off the new 20 wire cable but the wire colors
do not match up.
I do not have the original control for the motor.

Any help would be very much appreciated!!
Thanks!!

 

[ahicks]

Well, here's one hint. Not all of the plugs are generally used!

The big round plug on the motor end is all you need most of the time.

The wires shown in the picture of the side control are generally extended and used for a tach. Hopefully (if you have the correct control) there's another set of wires coming from the control not shown in the pic. USUALLY, this other set of wires is just matched up to the forward end of the harness. At that point you should be good to go....

 

[73 Dolphin]

Thanks for the reply.
The wire plugs from the side controls (pic 5) match two of the plugs from the forward end of the 20 wire harness (pic 4) except that the wire colors are not matched. Sorry I thought I'd said that.
If the colors matched pin to pin I'd figure that s how it goes. They do connect together securely.
I also figure the other 6 pin plug next to the round main (pic 3) isn't needed or attaches to something I'm not seeing/ not on motor.

 

[ahicks]

Can't say that I've noticed a difference in wire colors matching the harness to the controller.

I'd be tempted to try it. Worst case, everything is run through the 10 amp fuse located next to the starter. If the tilt works and the motor turns over, you should be good to go. Next concern is the choke.

That LOOKS like a newer controller. The issue being whether or not it contains the manual choke switch for the motor. That would be engaged when the idle up lever is all the way up against it's forward stop. The newer series controller for the 06/07 and newer, don't have that choke switch, because those motors either have an automatic choke, or they are fuel injected.

No huge loss if the control doesn't have the choke function. That just gives you an excuse to mount one remotely on the dash (or wherever) that's generally easier to use anyway. Horn buttons work great.

On the motor side, don't worry about where the extra connector plugs in. If your motor has a place to plug the extra lead in, it would be to an extra cable laying right next to the big round one.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Ahicks - Thanks!!
That all makes sense.I'll give it shot later. I hadn't thought about the choke circuit.
I still need to work out what control I have if I can find some sort of model number on it but like you said if turns over and the tilt works then all is good.
I'll post the results later along with the control number when found,in case it helps someone else.

 

[ahicks]

Best of luck! The motor, if all is right, is a little jewel. It's made a LOT of friends since it came out. So this initial set up hassle will prove to be well worth it I'm sure.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Best of luck! The motor, if all is right, is a little jewel. It's made a LOT of friends since it came out. So this initial set up hassle will prove to be well worth it I'm sure.

That's what I'm hoping. Its a 2009 AB nautilus 11 dlx RIB which came with a 2009 Yamaha 40hp. Originally I looked for the same motor to re-power and found that there were many listed with the same issue. No compression in top cylinder. His had zero in the top 2 and 155 in the bottom. It had very few hours on it.
Anyway....I spoke to a friend who is super keen on Yamahas and said what motor it was. He said that that motor was not their best.
So having had Hondas with great results I decided to go that rout and I picked one up locally that has great compression and it very clean.
Its is a 50hp and the boat is rated for 40hp but this motor is 20lbs lighter than the Yamaha 40 that was on it.
Anyway. I connected the main round plug to the motor and the two plugs that would fit at the control end. Nothing.
The shift / throttle cables are not connected to the remote. So the motor is manually set in neutral and so is the remote but the trim or key do nothing. Not even a click.
I did think that perhaps there's a switch in the remote that needs the cable attached to register in neutral and not just the position of the lever.
Ill look at that when I get a chance. I think I'm having to do family stuff for the rest of the day.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Still no joy here. The Honda parts diagram for my exact motor shows the internals of the correct side control supplied at the time(2003).
It doesnt show the model number of that control (item 4).
This also means any other parts supplier has the same info.
Usually it says something like item 4 ( model number) discontinued or no longer available or replaced by (model number)
But item 4 ( the side control) is not even listed. So there is nothing to reference.
Am I being dense and missing the obvious?
I really want get this motor to crank and for the tilt to work!!
If there is a database of control connections somewhere please let me know so I can figure this out.

 

[ahicks]

I refurb these things (40-90hp Honda's) as a hobby (love bringing a thoroughly dead motor back to life, no matter what it takes), then sell them for mad money. I've done a BUNCH of them!!

I assume control compatibility from anything previous to the fuel injection motors (and they will work on those, difference is about the choke and idiot lights) all the way back to the original mid 90's motors. Same story with the harness.

This motor, for all practical purposes, is identical from '05 back, and is the same as the 35, 40, and 45's.

Sounds like it might be time to stop looking for the part number and get your hands dirty. No idea where you are getting in trouble. Have you done any troubleshooting? Does the tilt switch on the side of the motor work? The motor isn't going to crank if the neutral safety switches (2 of them, one on the motor, another in the control) aren't closed (has to be in neutral). Will the motor turn over if the start relay is bypassed? Have you pulled the control down so you can see the layout and confirm if there's a choke switch? Is there power coming from the motor?

If you'd like a wiring diagram, they're included near the back of the owner's manuals which are available to download free. Again, keep in mind these motors are all the same, so exact year makes no difference. I'll tell you in advance, the diagrams are tough going. Nothing you want to be in a hurry doing.....

 

[73 Dolphin]

I refurb these things (40-90hp Honda's) as a hobby (love bringing a thoroughly dead motor back to life, no matter what it takes), then sell them for mad money. I've done a BUNCH of them!!

I assume control compatibility from anything previous to the fuel injection motors (and they will work on those, difference is about the choke and idiot lights) all the way back to the original mid 90's motors. Same story with the harness.

This motor, for all practical purposes, is identical from '05 back, and is the same as the 35, 40, and 45's.

Sounds like it might be time to stop looking for the part number and get your hands dirty. No idea where you are getting in trouble. Have you done any troubleshooting? Does the tilt switch on the side of the motor work? The motor isn't going to crank if the neutral safety switches (2 of them, one on the motor, another in the control) aren't closed (has to be in neutral). Will the motor turn over if the start relay is bypassed? Have you pulled the control down so you can see the layout and confirm if there's a choke switch? Is there power coming from the motor?

If you'd like a wiring diagram, they're included near the back of the owner's manuals which are available to download free. Again, keep in mind these motors are all the same, so exact year makes no difference. I'll tell you in advance, the diagrams are tough going. Nothing you want to be in a hurry doing.....

The motor mounted tilt works and yes it can be jumped to crank.
None of the plugs match up. I totally get that they should. But they don't and that's the help I am looking for.
Instead of re-writing it all again here basically I never had the control for this motor.The 20 wire harness plugs that were originally on the motor - yes I have it- do not fit my control. The new 20 wire harness with different plugs does not fit my control either.
I have no idea what control I have as Honda doesn't put a number on them that I can find. The control that should have come with it in 2003 I can't identify as Honda just plain didn't include it in their schematic. The parts for the control are there but the control identification is missing.
You say just get a control from a 2005 and older. Do you have a model number that I can use to search for that? It has to be a side control. Thanks.

 

[ahicks]

From where I'm sitting it sure looks like they do? You need the big round one on the motor to plug in, then I think just 2 of the ends on the control end need to plug into the control. The 4 and the 6 wire?

 

[73 Dolphin]

From where I'm sitting it sure looks like they do? You need the big round one on the motor to plug in, then I think just 2 of the ends on the control end need to plug into the control. The 4 and the 6 wire?

Like I said. Those two plugs do fit but the wire colors dont match. Mind you that's the new 20 wire (14 round) I bought for the motor hoping it would match the remote I had to buy. So in other words. New 20 wire and new side control match connectors but not the wire colors. And the wires colors are not just mismatched colors but also different colors
The 14 wire round harness that WAS on it had completely different connectors. The guy before me had it connected to a OMC top mount remote that I cant use. All the pictures are posted I think.
The wires on the main round plug on the old and new cables match wire for wire.
It's the control end connectors that dont match up.
Looks like the main round plug has never changed. The plugs on the other end of that cable have.
It could even be that I have a 20hp side control and not the 25hp and up. Like I said I cant see anything on it to tell me what control it it.
So yes the plugs match from the new main harness to the new remote but the wires in the plugs dont. The plugs from the one cable have some different color wires than the other.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Apologies for the crappy drawing but... the connectors on the left are from the side control. They are the 4 and 6 pin connectors....
On the right are the connectors from the main wiring harness.
They are drawn the way you see them looking at them. So they are mirror images.
So the 6 wire control to main when connected goes like this...
Sea Green (not green or blue) connects to black.
Blue/ Black connects to Yellow/ Green.
Red/Black connects to Green/Black
Blue connects to Yellow/Black
Red connects to Black/White
Orange connects to Red/Black.
(like I said - not even the same colors)
The 4 wire:
White/Black connects to White/Black
Black/White connects to Green/Black
Green connects to Black
Black connects to Green.
(this has almost the same wires just located in different places)
It's a new main harness model number listed somewhere above and a new unknow model Honda side control (picture also above)
It's not that I don't want to get my hands dirty - I removed the 40hp yamaha that was on the boat and replaced with this motor - I just don't know where to start with what I have here.

 

[ahicks]

Well, not good news. I have no clue what you have going on. I checked 2 different used harnesses that I have here, and a used late model control (no choke, 4 idiot lights) and none of them even come close to what your diagram is showing. The 4 wire doesn't match either side (control or harness) and same story with the 6 wire.

The orange wire sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't remember seeing an orange wire.

One other note. That control looks like a Chinese knock off sold on ebay. I've never tried using one.

 

[73 Dolphin]

It's not a Chinese knock off. Like I said it may be a 20hp remote which I'm guessing has different wiring as the controls and 20 wire harnesses are listed to 20hp then again from 25-250hp. (2 different types although the bodies are identical on the control boxes it seems) If so then yes the colors will be off. The orange wire is on the control wiring not the main harness. The 20 wire is the correct cable per Honda. So it looks like I have a 20hp remote and a 50hp motor. Like I said, there's nothing I can see on the remote to tell me what model it is.
There is a guy with a 50hp remote locally that's still in the box. I guess I need to go see him with my 20 pin and see if it matches.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Well, not good news. I have no clue what you have going on. I checked 2 different used harnesses that I have here, and a used late model control (no choke, 4 idiot lights) and none of them even come close to what your diagram is showing. The 4 wire doesn't match either side (control or harness) and same story with the 6 wire.

The orange wire sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't remember seeing an orange wire.

One other note. That control looks like a Chinese knock off sold on ebay. I've never tried using one.

Ok ahicks, I'm still banging my head against the wall. Do you think If I get a new control box 24800-ZZ5-A22 to go with the new main harness 32205-ZY6-015AH (yep a shortie) It should work less the choke?
In other words, will the post 2005 stuff work with the pre 2005 except for choke?
I did read the part where you said that pretty much all pre 2005 main and controls work together but any idea if they are interchangeable for basic functions with the newer stuff?
Out of interest does your late model control match the older main harness?
If it does, then I'll just go get a newer control. The other option is finding both the 2003 main harness and side remote that goes with it which isn't proving as easy as you might think!
Also the remote box I have and showed earlier is a 20hp new remote. The guy I bought if from confirmed. Thats why the colors are off, I guess.
Thanks.