2001 Suzuki DF140, won't crank, no spark

[dheadden]

I eliminated the fuel by placing an electric pump straight to the manifold. I place a spark plug in and grounded it but couldn't see any spark. Don't have a manual (I know it is stupid). Could it be the sensor that detects the motor spinning and sends a signal to the ECM. I am assuming that it is in the front under the flywheel. Exactly how do I make sure the ECM is good. I read a lot about the gray power wire. I remove the two relays below the ECM and checked them I got a zero ohms reading after exciting them. There is a plug under the ECM that have numerous gray wires going to them. Is this supposed to have power when the ignition is on. I did check the gray wire going into the ECM and it has power. At this point I'm stumped. I pulled up a schematic that says it covers 90-140 but I can't find the buss bar plug anywhere on it. The boat is sitting on a lift, otherwise it would be in a shop now.

 

[stresspoint]

test the white wire that is on the battery terminal , fuse could be blown or corrosion in the wire.

make sure the lanyard key is making proper contact.

report back after tests above are completed.

 

[lakensea]

I eliminated the fuel by placing an electric pump straight to the manifold. I place a spark plug in and grounded it but couldn't see any spark. Don't have a manual (I know it is stupid). Could it be the sensor that detects the motor spinning and sends a signal to the ECM. I am assuming that it is in the front under the flywheel. Exactly how do I make sure the ECM is good. I read a lot about the gray power wire. I remove the two relays below the ECM and checked them I got a zero ohms reading after exciting them. There is a plug under the ECM that have numerous gray wires going to them. Is this supposed to have power when the ignition is on. I did check the gray wire going into the ECM and it has power. At this point I'm stumped. I pulled up a schematic that says it covers 90-140 but I can't find the buss bar plug anywhere on it. The boat is sitting on a lift, otherwise it would be in a shop now.

No such thing as a 2001 DF140.

 

[wmgeorge]

won't crank, no spark​

Which is it? Is the engine turning / rotating over or not?

 

[dheadden]

No such thing as a 2001 DF140.

Title says 2001 DF140. Boat is a 2001. I don't know one way or the other. Just know it won't start.

 

[dheadden]

won't crank, no spark​

Which is it? Is the engine turning / rotating over or not?

Engine turns over by the starter, has external electric fuel pump but I get "0" signs of any spark. I'm 78 and have been around engines most of my life. If I had a wiring diagram I can normally figure it out but I don't have one for this motor and as soon as it comes off the lift it is sold. That was the reason I didn't purchase a manual.

 

[dheadden]

From what I've read the gray wire has power supplied to various components on the motor. I'm not sure what the white wire is used for and where it goes.

 

[99yam40]

just because the boat is a 2001 does not mean the motor is.
find the motor ID info on the motor itself so you know what you are dealing with.

 

[stresspoint]

forget the grey wire , its the whit wire that powers the ECU if it is a 4 stroke .

if its a 2 smoke , im out no idea about Suzuki 2 smokes .

 

[dheadden]

test the white wire that is on the battery terminal , fuse could be blown or corrosion in the wire.

make sure the lanyard key is making proper contact.

report back after tests above are completed.

Will check those out as soon as the weather permits. This southern boy can't handle 50 degrees w/25 mph winds. Thanks for taking your time to reply.

 

[dheadden]

forget the grey wire , its the whit wire that powers the ECU if it is a 4 stroke .

if its a 2 smoke , im out no idea about Suzuki 2 smokes .

It is a 4 stroke and I'll post the motor info this evening.

 

[dheadden]

just because the boat is a 2001 does not mean the motor is.
find the motor ID info on the motor itself so you know what you are dealing with.

VIN IS 14001-375130 DF140 WHAT YEAR DOES THIS MAKE THIS ENGINE. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR THE CORRECT INFO.

 

[dheadden]

It is a 4 stroke and I'll post the motor info this evening.

Check the white wire from the ignition and have battery voltage / above 13.4. Lanyard key in place. Have checked power at the fuel pump, both coils, 12v and 5v at CMP, power in and out of ECM relay, starter circuit is operating as it should. Check operation of CMP and it appears to be erratic. Sometime it will stay on 5 volts when excited but never goes below .31v. Still no fire. I am assuming that the ECM grounds or releases ground of the coils to fire and that if the CMP does go to zero that would trigger the ECM to remove the ground on the coils to fire. Does having all the voltages I listed mean that the ECM is working or still doesn't clear the ECM of being bad. My worst nightmare. Thanks for your time.

 

[lakensea]

2003 engine. To properly diagnose you need the appropriate factory manual and test harness. The manual has a diagnostic flow chart to follow and instructions to properly test each component. Without them, you are simply guessing.

How are you testing voltages if you do not have the test harness?

What is the fuel pressure at the fuel rail?

Are there any check engine codes displaying on the tachometer?

 

[dheadden]

2003 engine. To properly diagnose you need the appropriate factory manual and test harness. The manual has a diagnostic flow chart to follow and instructions to properly test each component. Without them, you are simply guessing.

How are you testing voltages if you do not have the test harness?

What is the fuel pressure at the fuel rail?

Are there any check engine codes displaying on the tachometer?

The tach is non-functional at this time. All voltages were checked in a static condition and I understand that I'm just guessing. If I were able to get the boat down the river to put it on a trailer it would be at a dealership in a perfect world but I don't live in one. I feel that there is a logical solution because my original problem was it wouldn't rev over 3000 RPM's but during repairing the fuel issue it lost any fire at the plugs. Just hoping someone may have been able to help. No check engine codes I know of.

 

[stresspoint]

sounds like you may have created the no spark issue during working on the motor.
the motor not revving over 3k is an indicator that you may have been loosing spark on a cylinder or 2 , ? possibly in limp mode or injector circuit failure ,however , that usually switches a check light, no tach you would not know.

the next check for me would be the neutral safety switch, they do get jammed with gunk "from memory" the motor will still crank over but no spark to start the motor..

check the oil , there is a low / no oil cut off that will cause no spark.

as posted , static checking is not ideal , however you can still flounder around doing so to get to the root cause.

the ECUs on the early motors were not the best so maybe be prepared to swap that out , just be sure if you do to get an exact P/N match, there may be a superseded P.N but that is up to you to investigate.

try to get access to SDS they are available on flea bay for cheap , not that that will tell you much at this point , but will help in the future when you have an issue.

 

[lakensea]

The tach is non-functional at this time. All voltages were checked in a static condition and I understand that I'm just guessing. If I were able to get the boat down the river to put it on a trailer it would be at a dealership in a perfect world but I don't live in one. I feel that there is a logical solution because my original problem was it wouldn't rev over 3000 RPM's but during repairing the fuel issue it lost any fire at the plugs. Just hoping someone may have been able to help. No check engine codes I know of.

Of course - there's always more to the story. I just don't get why people don't describe the entire history. No working multifunction tach, then you have no way of knowing if there are any check engine codes. "static check" ? what does that tell me? Are you back probing the connectors, piercing the wires? Either of those chance damaging the ECM or harness. What kind of fuel issue did you have, how did you diagnose it and what was the repair?

Can the dealer send a tech out look at it?

 

[lakensea]

sounds like you may have created the no spark issue during working on the motor. Agreed
the motor not revving over 3k is an indicator that you may have been loosing spark on a cylinder or 2 , ? possibly in limp mode or injector circuit failure ,however , that usually switches a check light, no tach you would not know. Agreed

the next check for me would be the neutral safety switch, they do get jammed with gunk "from memory" the motor will still crank over but no spark to start the motor.. That would be incorrect.

check the oil , there is a low / no oil cut off that will cause no spark. That would be incorrect.

as posted , static checking is not ideal , however you can still flounder around doing so to get to the root cause. And cause additional problems.

the ECUs on the early motors were not the best NOT TRUE! so maybe be prepared to swap that out , just be sure if you do to get an exact P/N match, there may be a superseded P.N but that is up to you to investigate.

try to get access to SDS they are available on flea bay for cheap , not that that will tell you much at this point , but will help in the future when you have an issue.

 

[stresspoint]

so now you have questioned my advice on what should be checked , in your xspurt opinion what is the exact problem here with the Ops motor..

also just a FYI , you do not need to back probe wires to get loom readings , simply unplug from the component and probe the pins in the connectors.
you can check continuity and voltage if you know how to use a MM correctly.

also when someone posts """from memory or acronym IIRC"" that usually means that they have worked on many motors and cant remember the exact details of a particular engine.

 

[lakensea]

so now you have questioned my advice on what should be checked , in your xspurt opinion what is the exact problem here with the Ops motor..

also just a FYI , you do not need to back probe wires to get loom readings , simply unplug from the component and probe the pins in the connectors.
you can check continuity and voltage if you know how to use a MM correctly.

also when someone posts """from memory or acronym IIRC"" that usually means that they have worked on many motors and cant remember the exact details of a particular engine.

Sorry you were offended, I simply was agreeing when you were correct, and pointing out where you were wrong so that anyone following this would not be mislead.

You can check the resistance of a component that way, but not the voltage in and out as the component needs to be connected and powered up. Sure you can back probe the connector (with a proper probe), but keep in mind that doing that can compromise the water tight integrity of the connection. And, as I'm sure you are well aware, piercing the insulation to test is an absolute no-no. That is why Suzuki makes specific test harnesses that connect between the engine harness and the computer. Using the chart in the service manual, components and functions can be safely tested.

As far as my opinion, based on the fact that the OP has not been forthcoming about the other issues, and has not answered some of my questions, I could only guess, which I will not do.

And one other correction - no all Suzuki's have a separate white wire going to the battery. In fact, this engine does not.