2001 Suzuki DF140, won't crank, no spark

[stresspoint]

Sorry you were offended, I simply was agreeing when you were correct, and pointing out where you were wrong so that anyone following this would not be mislead.

You can check the resistance of a component that way, but not the voltage in and out as the component needs to be connected and powered up. Sure you can back probe the connector (with a proper probe), but keep in mind that doing that can compromise the water tight integrity of the connection. And, as I'm sure you are well aware, piercing the insulation to test is an absolute no-no. That is why Suzuki makes specific test harnesses that connect between the engine harness and the computer. Using the chart in the service manual, components and functions can be safely tested.

As far as my opinion, based on the fact that the OP has not been forthcoming about the other issues, and has not answered some of my questions, I could only guess, which I will not do.

And one other correction - no all Suzuki's have a separate white wire going to the battery. In fact, this engine does not.

I'm not getting into a squirting match about who knows more about 4 stroke EFI outboards , just trying to help Op as best i can with limited info and without having my head in the motor.
keep in mind the Op is probably doing his best to get to the root cause so every bit of info helps
so some helpful advice from an xspurt like yourself should have him up and running in a few minutes
BTW there is a white wire on early motors , it just does not run from the battery.

 

[lakensea]

I'm not getting into a squirting match about who knows more about 4 stroke EFI outboards , just trying to help Op as best i can with limited info and without having my head in the motor.
keep in mind the Op is probably doing his best to get to the root cause so every bit of info helps
so some helpful advice from an xspurt like yourself should have him up and running in a few minutes
BTW there is a white wire on early motors , it just does not run from the battery.

No problem. Like you said, limited info (or miss-info), not being hands on and not knowing what the prior issues were makes it pretty much near impossible to even guess.

It's unbelievable how or why customers don't want to part with valuable information.

White wire - you are correct. Actually white is the Suzuki color code for constant + power. All Suzuki's (2 & 4 stroke) have white wires in the harness, however only certain engines have the separate white wire going directly to the battery.

 

[dheadden]

It is a 4 stroke and I'll post the motor info this evening.

Check the white wire from the ignition and have battery voltage / above 13.4. Lanyard key in place. Have checked power at the fuel pump, both coils, 12v and 5v at CMP, power in and out of ECM relay, starter circuit is operating as it should. Check operation of CMP and it appears to be erratic. Sometime it will stay on 5 volts when excited but never goes below .31v. Still no fire. I am assuming that the ECM grounds or releases ground of the coils to fire and that if the CMP does go to zero that would trigger the ECM to remove the ground on the coils to fire. Does having all the voltages I listed mean that the ECM is working or still doesn't clear the ECM of being bad. My worst nightmare. Thanks for your time.

 

[dheadden]

I'm not getting into a squirting match about who knows more about 4 stroke EFI outboards , just trying to help Op as best i can with limited info and without having my head in the motor.
keep in mind the Op is probably doing his best to get to the root cause so every bit of info helps
so some helpful advice from an xspurt like yourself should have him up and running in a few minutes
BTW there is a white wire on early motors , it just does not run from the ba

 

[dheadden]

My white wire didn't come from the battery but I checked it at the ignition switch and it was reading battery voltage. Apparently I missed something if someone was getting upset because I never intended do it. I understand that taking it to the dealer is best but that isn't an option at the moment. I have followed other threads that worked around going to the dealers even though that may have been an option for them. As far as I can tell I have voltage at all the points I should have. I have to assume that the ECM is actually grounding all of these sensors to make them function. I was wondering if there is a way to determine that the bECM is functioning. I will replace any of the sensors that may possibly be the culprit. I have a CMP sensor coming because I wasn't complete sure of the test I did on it. I also read that the IAT sensor will limit the RPM's to 3000 which was the original problem when I replaced the filters and fuel pump. After that was when I had the problem with no fire. Any help is greatly appreciated. Also all voltaged checked were with a small needle in the end of the connectors so mas to not damage any of them. I know this isn't factory but I have no other options at this point.

 

[stresspoint]

My white wire didn't come from the battery but I checked it at the ignition switch and it was reading battery voltage. Apparently I missed something if someone was getting upset because I never intended do it. I understand that taking it to the dealer is best but that isn't an option at the moment. I have followed other threads that worked around going to the dealers even though that may have been an option for them. As far as I can tell I have voltage at all the points I should have. I have to assume that the ECM is actually grounding all of these sensors to make them function. I was wondering if there is a way to determine that the bECM is functioning. I will replace any of the sensors that may possibly be the culprit. I have a CMP sensor coming because I wasn't complete sure of the test I did on it. I also read that the IAT sensor will limit the RPM's to 3000 which was the original problem when I replaced the filters and fuel pump. After that was when I had the problem with no fire. Any help is greatly appreciated. Also all voltaged checked were with a small needle in the end of the connectors so mas to not damage any of them. I know this isn't factory but I have no other options at this point.

there is a way to test the pin out ATM i dont have the manual on my lap top i have now (on older laptop). basically you need to take readings between nominated pins "yea PIA " and not get lost as you go.
as i posted but was corrected , the early ECUs were a problem child that were prone to failing.
this was corrected by placing the white wire to the + battery terminal at the battery to stop feed back to the ECU.

best option is to bite the Bullitt "as many have done "when ECU is suspect and bought a replacement ECU and play swap tronics , if you go used try to get a some guarantee that the unit is not faulty., or get a loaner from someone in the industry as i have done in the past for testing.

 

[dheadden]

Of course - there's always more to the story. I just don't get why people don't describe the entire history. No working multifunction tach, then you have no way of knowing if there are any check engine codes. "static check" ? what does that tell me? Are you back probing the connectors, piercing the wires? Either of those chance damaging the ECM or harness. What kind of fuel issue did you have, how did you diagnose it and what was the repair?

Can the dealer send a tech out look at it?

I don't know about dealer sending someone but will check. As far as the history I didn't know that the tack even has a way of displaying codes and I will give you all I know of the history. I'm trying but I know automotive well but not marine.

 

[dheadden]

there is a way to test the pin out ATM i dont have the manual on my lap top i have now (on older laptop). basically you need to take readings between nominated pins "yea PIA " and not get lost as you go.
as i posted but was corrected , the early ECUs were a problem child that were prone to failing.
this was corrected by placing the white wire to the + battery terminal at the battery to stop feed back to the ECU.

best option is to bite the Bullitt "as many have done "when ECU is suspect and bought a replacement ECU and play swap tronics , if you go used try to get a some guarantee that the unit is not faulty., or get a loaner from someone in the industry as i have done in the past for testing.

Stesspoint, thanks for this info. Did find a wiring diagram not color coded so I get loss going from point a to b but will do my best. Could you tell this novice what is ATM and PIA. I don't see these and understand them.

 

[stresspoint]

Stesspoint, thanks for this info. Did find a wiring diagram not color coded so I get loss going from point a to b but will do my best. Could you tell this novice what is ATM and PIA. I don't see these and understand them.

ha ha , PIA , pain in the assss , ATM ,at the moment.

the test sequence i am referring is to test the ECU to determine if it needs replacing or repair , not the harness / loom.

the cost of having a tech make a visit will be high , probably cheaper to use the parts cannon ( buy parts and swap till it runs)

you did inspect the shift safety switch ( 2 black wires with Bullitt plugs) where the cables attach to the motor as i mention earlier "" but was corrected by an xspurt , IIRC , that switch works different to the helm switch and" WILL " allow the motor to crank over but not start if it is not stationed in the correct position for neutral or gummed up with dry grease.
it is also there to signal the ECU to only allow the motor to a nominated RPM in reverse.
""i cant remember off hand if disconnecting or joining the wires eliminates its function , give it a shot either way it wont hurt anything.

 

[stresspoint]

its been about 10 years since i worked on a Suzuki 4 stroke so please bare with me ..
off hand i cant remember where the ignition fuse is located , i know later models had a fuse in the white wire but early motor has me at a stand still. , maybe our resident xspurt may be able to point you in the correct direction there !

 

[dheadden]

No problem. Like you said, limited info (or miss-info), not being hands on and not knowing what the prior issues were makes it pretty much near impossible to even guess.

It's unbelievable how or why customers don't want to part with valuable information.

White wire - you are correct. Actually white is the Suzuki color code for constant + power. All Suzuki's (2 & 4 stroke) have white wires in the harness, however only certain engines have the separate white wire going directly to the battery.

I can promise you I have no problem in parting with any info I have. Not knowing very much about outboards I'm sure I didn't give all the info. All my boats were 52' or greater and I did all the work myself with the exception of two overhauls. I originally had issues with fuel delivery and replaced everything from the tank forward. It ran for a short time and the next time I went back there was a no spark issue but not knowing the functioning of the ECM I resorted to checking power at different modules. I know I have power but assume because no one has said otherwise that the ECM grounds or ungrounds components. My boat didn't have a white wire from the battery but there was one at the ignition switch which I checked and had battery voltage, I also checked the lanyard but I later found that switch to be bad. I will put a new one on tomorrow. In working on it I now have the tach back working and the check engine shows two codes. first is a 2-2. Second is 3-2 with the three flashing first. I was reading on another site that actually reversed a 4-3 code to a 3-4 code. That confused me so I don't know if the code is 3-2 or 2-3. I believe it is the first one. I can understand that code as I have the air plenum off at this moment. The other appears to be MAP sensor 2. I am presently looking for it. I appreciate all the time you are taking and all your input as I am still lost on these small engines. One thing that you could impart to me is if the ECM is the point where most of these components receive their ground from. If so I still don't have a clue as to whether the ECM is working.

 

[dheadden]

ha ha , PIA , pain in the assss , ATM ,at the moment.

the test sequence i am referring is to test the ECU to determine if it needs replacing or repair , not the harness / loom.

the cost of having a tech make a visit will be high , probably cheaper to use the parts cannon ( buy parts and swap till it runs)

you did inspect the shift safety switch ( 2 black wires with Bullitt plugs) where the cables attach to the motor as i mention earlier "" but was corrected by an xspurt , IIRC , that switch works different to the helm switch and" WILL " allow the motor to crank over but not start if it is not stationed in the correct position for neutral or gummed up with dry grease.
it is also there to signal the ECU to only allow the motor to a nominated RPM in reverse.
""i cant remember off hand if disconnecting or joining the wires eliminates its function , give it a shot either way it wont hurt anything.

Thanks I made a long reply just then because one of the people thought I wasn't giving all the info I had. That is very possible but I came on here

 

[dheadden]

Thanks I made a long reply just then because one of the people thought I wasn't giving all the info I had. That is very possible but I came on here

You can tell I don't do this any.

 

[dheadden]

ha ha , PIA , pain in the assss , ATM ,at the moment.

the test sequence i am referring is to test the ECU to determine if it needs replacing or repair , not the harness / loom.

the cost of having a tech make a visit will be high , probably cheaper to use the parts cannon ( buy parts and swap till it runs)

you did inspect the shift safety switch ( 2 black wires with Bullitt plugs) where the cables attach to the motor as i mention earlier "" but was corrected by an xspurt , IIRC , that switch works different to the helm switch and" WILL " allow the motor to crank over but not start if it is not stationed in the correct position for neutral or gummed up with dry grease.
it is also there to signal the ECU to only allow the motor to a nominated RPM in reverse.
""i cant remember off hand if disconnecting or joining the wires eliminates its function , give it a shot either way it wont hurt anything.

Thanks for all your replies. I have a test cord coming tomorrow with the code reader. Using the check Engine light as I put before it is reading a code 2-2 and either a code 3-2 or 2-3. That one read 3 flashes then 2 but on another website they had reversed the numbers which would have made that code 2-3. Does the flashing light read exactly how it flashes 3-2?