2 Stroke Oils vs TC-W3 Oils

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Yesterday went sailing on a 30 footer sailboat which has a 15L HP kicker. Owner is currently using Husqvarna High RPM motorcycle oil at 50:1 mix. Told it was not a TC-W3 certified OB oil, being intended for air cooled motorcycle engines, could have further tech issues with his engine...

The engine is just throttled to half grip for hours use at medium displacement speed, he's been using this same oil for months now, which could be a down engine issue if keeps using this oil ? Read about an ash issue related to generic motorcycle and OB oils, can someone briefly explain what's all about ?

Happy Boating
 
Last edited:

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Thanks Guy,

Very interesting article. Forgot to mention that the bottle did say mix to 50:1 on high rpm engines. Being Husqvarna a Swedish Motorcycle Company probably sell this oil for multiple high rpm 2 stroke engines in Europe.

If my friend has consumed more than 2 gallons of the reffered oil, assume his engine would be ok if continues using it. Time and use will surely tell..

Happy Boating
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,738
There are many articles based on research pertaining to 2 cycle oils.

Will try to find them later, if I have time.

Most I have read, concluded that high operating temp oils will not fully burn off in a cooler running water cooled engine, leading to issues.

Then again, it may all depend on the specific oil.
 

undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
Yes it is a fact the oils are different, yes it is a fact the wrong oil can cause problems. Will it destroy his engine...possibly, but it normally takes a little time for the deposits to form and create an issue, and it doesn't always happen.
 

guy48065

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
444
There are many articles based on research...
As long add these articles are newer and include synthetic oils, I'm interested. I'm just not sure there's still a need to introduce metals into oil to improve high temperature lubrication. It's these metals that need to burn off-- creating the ash in low-ash 2-cycle oil. If a high temp ashless synthetic oil is recommended for jetskis, why can't they be used in our water cooled motors?
 

undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
As long add these articles are newer and include synthetic oils, I'm interested. I'm just not sure there's still a need to introduce metals into oil to improve high temperature lubrication. It's these metals that need to burn off-- creating the ash in low-ash 2-cycle oil. If a high temp ashless synthetic oil is recommended for jetskis, why can't they be used in our water cooled motors?

Why worry about it when there are already many synthetic oils that meet the standard for use in out boards. Plus you will never know exactly how many oils that would pass testing and could be used in outboards because some companies don't want to spend the amount of money it takes to get the TCW 3 certification.
 
Last edited:

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,807
OK, I'll bite. Guy848065, when did JetSki motors become non water cooled, and when did they start using non TC-W oil?
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
What about 2 stroke synthetic oils, must they be TC-W3 certified for OB uses ? Could you have tech issues if using non certified good quality synthetic ones ?

Happy Boating
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,807
TCW-III oil ratings are awarded to synthetic and non-synthetic oil. TCW-III oil is specified for Two Cycle, Water Cooled engines, like Outboards and other 2 cycle water cooled motors. Using no oil will always cause 2 cycle engine failure. Using TCW-III oil properly, in a clean, well-tuned motor will keep it running well. Using any other oil will give results in between those outcomes.

Luckily here in America, we have the freedom to use any or no oil, as we see fit
 

guy48065

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
444
...Using any other oil will give results in between those outcomes.
And using anything other than the recommended SAE 30 ND in my mower will make it go BOOM because that's what they recommend. Can't improve on perfection.

Things change man.
 
Last edited:

undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
He didn't say it would self destruct on the second revolution of the motor, he said the results would fall somewhere in between very good long term protection and failure.

While TCW3 certification means it will pass some testing and meet the minimum standards and perform well in the intended application, not having it doesn't mean it won't. But you have no way knowing if the oil is even remotely suitable for outboard use if it doesn't, it may be the best product ever made, or junk, you just don't know. This part is totally up to the owner, go with whatever product you feel is best from your point of view, you can use one of the mega dollar synthetics or 30 weight motor oil, they both have a long history of use in 2 strokes, and they will both work well.....for a while
 

guy48065

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
444
Actually he said any other oil would perform worse than TC-W3. I can't accept that --TC-W3 isn't the best available, it's just certified to pollute less than better oils.
 

undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
The needs of the type of motor are why it was developed and different, everything is designed to pollute less now.

Here's the challenge, prove that there is a better oil for this purpose than the best TCW3 oil.

Here's the problem, there is no way to tell which is the "best" TCW3 oil or which may be the "best" non TCW3 oil that would work in this application to compare it to.

Every company out there says theirs is the best.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,807
Gee, I never said using something other than TCW-III oil would always cause the motor to not work as well. It may work just as well as TCW-III oil, or it may not. I have never heard of any oil PROVEN to allow a motor to perform better than TCW-III oil.

On a related topic, the older Outboards used SAE-30 non detergent motor oil. Those motors will work fine on the TCW-III oils as well. Newer motors may not work well on SAE-30 motor oil.

I never heard that TCW-III oils pollute more or less than other oils. Some oils claim to be biodegradable. Not sure what that really means.

Guy - What oils are superior to TCW-III certified oil? What is the proof of their superiority?
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,807
OK, so the very long post (link from your post #2) suggests that some non TCW-III oils are better in snowmobiles, than TCW-III oils. I do not know that to be true or false, nor do I care about snowmobiles.

I had thought you suggested that there was better oil for outboards, then TCW-III. If there is better oil for water cooled outboards, I would like to know what it is and how you know it is better.
 

guy48065

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
444
I was more interested in how the standard for TC-W3 came about than specific applications.

I used to run straight 30 in all trimmers, chainsaws and such. .. because that's what my dad did. I didn't know there was any difference what oil gets burned during combustion. Then I start into boating and this motors call for expensive TC-W3, and I use that because outboard are expensive and TC oil has to be best because it costs more. LOL.
Then live takes me into a bunch of different things and I start learning there are differences. .. and there is marketing. .. and environmental concerns. .. which leads to the recommended oil may not be the best choice to protect your investment.
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
You guys have tried different TC-W3 oild brands before switching to Synthetics. Mixed at 50:1, which Non Syn brand would you say smokes the least. Currently using Chevron TC-W3, which find bit smokey specially at neutral.

Happy Boating
 

jauguston

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
104
I use a generic synthetic two stroke oil that one of our largest outboard dealer has in a 55 gallon barrel. Bring your own jug. Mix at 100-1 they recommend for any outboard. Been using it for all my two strokes at 100-1 for the last 10 years. Zero engine issues.


Jim
 
Last edited:
Top