1992 Stratos 2250 here we go again

[ahmincha]

Yeah jc I weighed it. I am converting my jeep from manual to aut and found a guy who wanted to trade all parts. So I have to ship him manual setup and he'll ship me his auto setup so I had scale out LOL . Yes I planed on weighing the new one I just hope I remember

 

[jc55]

I've owned and worked on many Jeeps and I thought I recognized a jeep transfer case mounting crossmember:joyous:

I'm still trying to figure out the crown molding instructions you posted...man that stuff kicks my butt. Nice progress on the boat.

 

[ahmincha]

Thanks jc Basically you can cut the crown lying flat on the saw.. Crown molding sits on the wall at different angles (spring angles) I cut a small piece place it on the wall figure the spring angle I bought a cheap angle finder at the depot all you have to do is set it on the molding. [h=1]Johnson Squares Magnetic Angle Locator 700[/h] Then follow the instructions on the chart for inside and outside angles. Hope this helps

 

[ahmincha]

Ok so I called us composites to ask a few ? about epoxy and how much coverage you get wetting out glass and he asked me what I will be using. I told him db170 and he said that 90% of people use 1708 with epoxy. I am not trying to start another debate just thought that was weird.
So that I do order the right stuff to make pb with epoxy i still need cabiasol? what about 1/4" chopped I assume i do not need it what else will I need.
And as far as glass goes for the stringers and the transom all I need is db170?

 

[Woodonglass]

Who did you talk to at USC??? I want to call them. I've had this discussion with their OWNER before and he was NOT aware that his technical support was telling his customers this. I don't suppose you asked him WHY they use it as opposed to using the Biax without the CSM?? That's what I'm gunna Do!!!! As far as this Old Dumb Okie is concerned, when you're using Epoxy, all you need and want is the db 170 unless you just wanna waste resin.:facepalm:

UPDATE: I called USC and spoke to the tech. His theory was that the csm would help in creating a better bond since it would conform to the rough wood better. When I pointed out that most ACX or Marine Grade plywood was Very smooth and void free and therefore needed no extra effort of conformability he stated that he didn't say you HAD to use 1708 but most people did. When I asked why they would he said because it was stronger. When I pointed out that CSM offered no structural strength since it was loose strand configured and epoxy had no styrene to break it down and didn't need it for a binder, and the only possible structural element it MIGHT have was the stitching, he stated he didn't want to argue. He also stated it was only a Nickel a yard more to which I said well not really since it would soak up a lot more of the expensive epoxy resin than just straight 17oz biax would he stated he guessed that was true. He said that you couldn't use Thickened Poly to glue your transom to the hull that it would not work as a glue. When I asked him why all the Poly boats stayed stuck together he didn't have an answer.

 

[kcassells]

Ok so I called us composites to ask a few ? about epoxy and how much coverage you get wetting out glass and he asked me what I will be using. I told him db170 and he said that 90% of people use 1708 with epoxy. I am not trying to start another debate just thought that was weird.
So that I do order the right stuff to make pb with epoxy i still need cabiasol? what about 1/4" chopped I assume i do not need it what else will I need.
And as far as glass goes for the stringers and the transom all I need is db170?

Yes you are correct..:No other conversation required. Salesman...geezzz! Any way yes you will want to use cabosil for the pb and no glass strands are NOT required for the pb. And I just don't care haha I put them in anyway. lol. Oh yea lots of mixing buckets.

DB170 - 17oz Biaxial - NO MAT

[SIZE=-1]+/- 45 degree Contains double bias(17oz) stitched at 45degrees. Does not have a mat backing. Thickness: 0.030"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]FG-DB170-50[/SIZE]

 

[ahmincha]

Sorry wood didn't mean to fire you up but I am glad you set him straight LOL
Thanks kc and just for you I will mix a little chopped into at least one batch

 

[Woodonglass]

LOL not really fired up I just hate it when the Retail techs give out somewhat dubious information. I will say he IS correct that it can be used without any actual adverse affects but WHY is my only question.

 

[kcassells]

Sorry wood didn't mean to fire you up but I am glad you set him straight LOL
Thanks kc and just for you I will mix a little chopped into at least one batch

LOL I know...cause some Old Oakie set me straight awhile back in the beginning of my thread.

 

[ahmincha]

Oh yeah I remember reading that kc. Thats why I knew he was not completely correct But I am not quite versed enough to debate with the tech and at least it is now on here for other people to read and learn

 

[ahmincha]

Ok I plan on ordering my epoxy from us composite. But ordering my cloth locally here is a link I am pretty sure its the right stuff just want to make sure.
http://stores.infinityfrp.com/17oz-50-knitted-45-double-bias-100-lb-roll/

 

[kcassells]

You got it Minch,
That's the stuff. Dam this site is sooooo slow.

 

[ahmincha]

thanks kc. Yes the site is horribly slow I thought it was my computer also

 

[zool]

well i guess they sell more epoxy advising peeps to use 08 with it...........you might want to consider reducing the amount of 17oz biax, and getting some lighter eglass too, its much easier to cap the stringers with...hot coating 2 wraps of 8.9 oz eglass is stronger than 1 170z biax wrap, and a hell of a lot easier to keep the air out...the 17oz biax works great over the fillets tho

 

[Arawak]

UPDATE: I called USC and spoke to the tech. His theory was that the csm would help in creating a better bond since it would conform to the rough wood better. When I pointed out that most ACX or Marine Grade plywood was Very smooth and void free and therefore needed no extra effort of conformability he stated that he didn't say you HAD to use 1708 but most people did. When I asked why they would he said because it was stronger.

It's not uncommon to use a layer of 1708 mat side down on a rough surface, to provide a little leveling just as he says, especially if you are using lighter cloth.. Whether it's *stronger*, well... I'm skeptical but maybe.

I'd agree that plywood is not a rough surface.

When I pointed out that CSM offered no structural strength since it was loose strand configured and epoxy had no styrene to break it down and didn't need it for a binder, and the only possible structural element it MIGHT have was the stitching, he stated he didn't want to argue.

That's because your statement is ridiculous. Unlike me, he has better things to do with his time than point that out.

He also stated it was only a Nickel a yard more to which I said well not really since it would soak up a lot more of the expensive epoxy resin than just straight 17oz biax would he stated he guessed that was true.

Can't argue with that.

He said that you couldn't use Thickened Poly to glue your transom to the hull that it would not work as a glue. When I asked him why all the Poly boats stayed stuck together he didn't have an answer.

It's a poor glue. This is in fact the reason you must use CSM between layers when you use polyester. Remember those "resin rich" areas you mentioned several arguments ago? Those are hard and brittle and prone to microfractures without reinforcement from CSM or chopped fibres.

The transom in my current Bayliner project was not only not stuck to the hull, but the two sheets of plywood it was constructed from weren't stuck together either. Not all the poly boats stay stick together. The ones that do probably use chopped fibres in their PB or a layer of CSM.

 

[kcassells]

All you have to do is Just put your lips together..................and blow.

 

[ahmincha]

Thanks for the input zool. If its stronger and easier should I just use 8.9 And if I do would I then do 4 layers. Also use it on transom?

 

[zool]

Thanks for the input zool. If its stronger and easier should I just use 8.9 And if I do would I then do 4 layers. Also use it on transom?

Sure you could do the whole thing in eglass, but it's not that straight forward. For the same reasons the caps are easier with the 8.9, the stringer verticals seem to be easier with the biax. The 17 oz biax stands up better on the vertical walls, so if u use the eglass, you need to use alligator clips and/or push pins to hold the cloth in place til it wetted.

On mine, I tab the stringers in with a 6" strip of 17 biax, then another tab of 17 all the way up the stringer wall, and 6" out the bottom. I then drape 2 layers of 8.9 over the top, and staggered out each side by another 3". But im switching from IL4's to v'8s, and run in heavy waters.

For your strat, you could just drape 3 layers of 8.9 eglass over the stringers, staggered at 3" per lam on the hull bottom, and be as good as 2 lams of 17oz. Using alligator clamps will ease the installation.

If you section off areas, and set all three lams in one session, your build will be mucho strong, and save a good amount of epoxy resin, the 8.9 set over a previous lam, almost wets itself out....the 17oz takes quite a bit of resin, and takes a considerable time to wet.

The combo of the 2 gives a bullet proof schedule, but its not needed for all builds.

 

[kcassells]

Now that's some good info. Thanks Zool!

 

[ahmincha]

Thanks for that info zool I think I am going to go with the 17oz for tabbing and the 8.9 for capping. Question I have with the two glasses i'm using do I have to pay attention to the way I run the layups or cut the cloth.