1990 Force L-Drive 90hp -- Can't get it to idle -- losing my mind :D

Solace

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Jul 23, 2021
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Hey all, 1990 Force L-Drive 90hp

1) My buddy got it running at idle and it sounded really nice -- but would sputter out and die when going into gear on the lake. On the muffs the prop spun just fine. I did play with the carb idle screws and actually got to do a few circles on the lake, but she would eventually die out.
View attachment Sort of working.mp4

2) So I adjust the timing, I can it started and keep it above 4000 RPM now, but going below 4000 RPM it will die. I have adjusted the timing so that it reads 30 degrees BTDC while I'm pushing the throttle down, it's perfectly aligned to 30. In the previous situation the timing was at least a few degrees out of alignment.
View attachment Dies 2.mp4

- Just cleaned the carbs AGAIN, new gaskets
- New CDI packs
- New Coil packs
- New plugs
 

Roadking57

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Jul 21, 2021
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I've been a mechanic my whole life. Usually the number one culprit of an engine not wanting to idle esp after cleaning carb and idle jets new plugs ect, is a vacuum leak. Somewhere some small line or fitting is sucking in air where its not supposed to. If your timing is correct, your fuel air mixture is right, you should achieve a good idle. And of course it wont be leaking where you can see it either thats a fact!
 

Solace

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Jul 23, 2021
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Someone mentioned it could be bad reeds, I'm not yet educated on that... Thoughts?

The leak would be occurring on the carb side, right? One of the idle screws is lose, I'm not using the right spring, but if I tighten it all the way down it does its job and will kill the engine.

So its running at high RPM which makes sense because it WANTS air -- lowering it wants less air, but because it's leaking it gets all screwed up and dies?

It's just that I've had it idling just a few days ago... perhaps something loosened off, I'll check again. THANKS for the reply.
 

Roadking57

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yes bad reeds will drive you crazy because you cant really tell they are bad by looking unless you have a trained eye or there is of course physical damage.
Get that loose mixture screw tightened up. will help I'm sure
 

Solace

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Ok so regarding Vacuum leak -- it DID idle before I changed timing settings. So... can't we rule out a vacuum leak?
 

jerryjerry05

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The first thing is you shouldn't mess with the timing as it doesn't move like some cars do.
You do the static timing? The factory reps ALWAYS set the timing using the static method.
Unless you can run the boat at wide open and over 5000rpm's you just messed up the timing settings.

The air screws are for low speed settings and have nothing to do with the idle. It will make the motor run smoother. Set at 1 1/2 turn out for initial adjustment n the 125. The 85/90 set at 1 turn out and leave it alone, factory sent out a bulletin saying sat them at 1 turn.
BUT!!! not all motors can run at that setting so it might need some adjusting. Had one that needed to be set at 3 turns out??
Make sure the linkage is adjusted and the carbs open at the same time.
Vacuum leak: can of starting fluid, start the motor, spray the SF around the intake side of the motor and under the packs along the port covers, if the spray makes a difference?? then it's sucking air from somewhere??
 

Solace

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Hey all, got it working! It was the fuel pump not delivering the right amount, so I bypassed it with an electric fuel pump. Starts right up.

I posted this on a FB group and they're like "ROD KNOCK" don't run it. So I'm thinking my timing could be off by 2 degrees, because I just double checked it and it's pretty darned close to where it should be.

What say this group? NOTE: It is running on muffs, I'm downtown in the city, echos are everywhere.. I put it in water and it doesn't make such a harsh sound. Will record tomorrow.
 

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  • running.mp4
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Solace

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So I re-examined the manual which states:
- Put the throttle IN GEAR at Wide Open Throttle
- Set the timing to 32 degrees

You can also get a digital timing gun that advances/retards the timing on the gun, but I just happen to have a shorted neutral switch anyway, so I was able to pull the plugs, short them together to ground, have the wife turn the key -- it was literally 1 rotation for 2 degrees and THIS is the difference.

Man I was so scared the boat I had been working on for nearly 3 months was gonna be junk in the end, but I think it sounds super healthy now?
 

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The Force power

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So I re-examined the manual which states:
- Put the throttle IN GEAR at Wide Open Throttle
- Set the timing to 32 degrees

You can also get a digital timing gun that advances/retards the timing on the gun, but I just happen to have a shorted neutral switch anyway, so I was able to pull the plugs, short them together to ground, have the wife turn the key -- it was literally 1 rotation for 2 degrees and THIS is the difference.

Man I was so scared the boat I had been working on for nearly 3 months was gonna be junk in the end, but I think it sounds super healthy now?
As Racerone already mentioned; check the compression on all cylinders
also I'm not entirely sure what you have done so far, but I would;

1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
 
Last edited:

The Force power

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Hey all, got it working! It was the fuel pump not delivering the right amount, so I bypassed it with an electric fuel pump. Starts right up.
I STRONGLY suggest that you repair/rebuilt the fuel-pump and stop using the electric pump as this may/will become a fire hazard
 

Solace

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Thanks for the detailed write up! I think I still may be out on my timing, what I thought was 28 might be 32, so I need to keep loosening it.
 

The Force power

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Thanks for the detailed write up! I think I still may be out on my timing, what I thought was 28 might be 32, so I need to keep loosening it.
This write-up was from the late Frank A.
one of the many good advices I have received over the years from the experts on this site.( I'm just passing on the knowledge)
So.....to verify;
- Check your compression
-Re-built the fuel-pump
- Set the timing at 28 degrees full throttle at cranking speed(it will end up at 30+ degrees at running speed of 5000+ rpms.)
 

Solace

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Jul 23, 2021
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So she's idling fine but dies going into gear on the water, works fine on muffs... I'm told carburator idle ajustment?
 
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