1990 Force 120HP B model cannot seem to find the issue with sporadic no start

[gica]

On the twin force 120hp I completely rebuilt one of the engines and the drive. I was able to successfully start and run the engine on a hose in the parking lot. As soon as I went to the lake it started but it would die in gear. Even adjusting the rpm did not help. The carbs air mix screw was adjusted at 1 and 1/8 which should be fine. So, after it started the filter was not filled with gas so I pumped the prime bulb which caused it to stall. At one point in the water the alarm went off this is all while docked, after that engine went off and it never started again. I will check compression again; water pump is new. I hope the drive is not too tight since I installed all new bearings and seals. Can the alarm trigger a no start condition, these are not computerized. This happened before in the parking lot and I thought it was the carbs, so I switched the carb as a set from one engine to the other and then it started fine in the parking lot. Even at the lake it was fine for a while when docked but would stall in gear. I am going to retest voltages, trigger is new, stator is new both CDI, the rectifier is new, I think.
At this point I need some helpful advise. The second engine is fine. Was able to cruise around the lake at 10 mph. You cannot really get more power on twin engines when one is out.
Help guys!

 

[racerone]

You ran it in the parking lot ?-----Water supplied to the impeller ?

 

[gica]

I have a pretty strong pressure water hose at the house. I didn't do it at the lake oarking lot

 

[gica]

So I have no sparg again. I tested compression and all are 120 to 125.
Statotgets 250v DVAob all 4. and 350ohms on resistance as per specs. Trigger gets 0.9V on 2 and 1.3V on other 2 all DVA so more than 0.5 and resistance to hround 51oms on all. Do those two are fine. I don't have spark. Testing the coils.
I doubt it's all the coils.

 

[gica]

I tested the CDI modules outputs and I got weird low readings the first time , tested again and got 220DVA on the engine that doesn't start. On the one that starts I get 190V on most and 185 on number 4. That's cranking
I first thought for sure the CDI modules were bad. But I guess not. The only thing left is the coils. I have to swap them. With the good ones. Can you test these on the engine?

 

[Nordin]

Yes you can test the coils on the engine.
The coils should jump a gap of 3/8 in or more in atmosphere.
Spec.
OEM stator 680-800 Ohm, output voltage 180V DVA or more.
CDI stator 300-400 Ohm, output voltage 180V DVA.
Triggers 48-50 Ohm , output voltage 0,5V DVA or more.
CDI-box output voltage to coil 210V DVA or more.
Coil prime winding 0,5-1,5 Ohm, secondary winding 500-600 Ohm.

Have you tried to unhook the regulator/rectifier and checked for spark?
Check all wires at the terminal strip, they can be broken under the shrink tube.
Pull gently at the wires at the lugs as the can be loose under the shrink tube.

 

[gica]

Yes you can test the coils on the engine.
The coils should jump a gap of 3/8 in or more in atmosphere.
Spec.
OEM stator 680-800 Ohm, output voltage 180V DVA or more.
CDI stator 300-400 Ohm, output voltage 180V DVA.
Triggers 48-50 Ohm , output voltage 0,5V DVA or more.
CDI-box output voltage to coil 210V DVA or more.
Coil prime winding 0,5-1,5 Ohm, secondary winding 500-600 Ohm.

Have you tried to unhook the regulator/rectifier and checked for spark?
Check all wires at the terminal strip, they can be broken under the shrink tube.
Pull gently at the wires at the lugs as the can be loose under the shrink tube.

Nordin thanks a bunch for the reply, so yesterday was a bad day because of that engine. So when I opened the drain plug to let the water out there was a lot of water coming. I have another boat that I used to use it's an I/O and it never had that much water after a few hours on a lake or ocean.
So today I looked closer and discovered some screws that someone used to mount 2 pieces of wood for support under one of the 2 batteries for the port side engine. These screws were mounted through hull and caused water to enter the transome area.
I took them all out today and will repair the hull no big deal. The other thing I noticed was the negative on one of the 2 batteries was loose you could easily be moved left or right. It was weird that the boat started right up a few times at first but died in gear and then just wouldn't start. So I am not sure if that could cause a no spark condition but I read you need 250 rpm to get spark going, or something like so. I mean I tested everything and I get 220DVA at the output primary to each coil. But no spark? It has to be the battery being loose. Even though I have a switch to use both bayteries at the same time. When I tested one battery, it showd 340 cca connected, after taking it out it showed 700cca. I found some corrosion on the battery leads from yesterday's event. So the stater is new the trigger is new the ignition switches new, the kill switches new, spark plugs new, retifier new. The only old parts are the modules and coils. Coils work great on the other engine. I read modules can act as if they are failing when engine gets hot. I did hear the overheat alarm before the engine didn't start but the battery cable could have heated up to also cause some heat, maybe not enough though. Water pump is new but I did start it a bunch of times without water source, bad habbit. Might need to replace the impeller again. No biggie. So that's where I am at.

 

[gica]

Another picture of the plugs.
Do it ran great for awhile and then it suddenly stopped, it would stary right up but sometimes there was a bit of backfire when cranking. I did start it a few 10 times and it seems to be ok now. I was like wtf this is new. So I raised the front of the boat more and it worked fine. Lowered it again and it did not do it. I took off the hose from the tank to the first junction and trimmed the ends. I took off the fuel sender and looked in the tank there is fuel there. It shows quarter tank on the gauge.

 

[gica]

I took compression again today and I had 150psi on 2 and 145psi on other 2. Safe to say the exhaust fix help raise it up at least on the test results. I have to take it to the lake again. I really hope thatit doesn't die in gear anymore. The fuel line is mostly new. Pump new, all gakets new clams everywhere. So of it still dies it will have to be electrical.
I actually tested spark with a special tool and it showed spark at 7/16 and close to half. I mean it sparked, could not tell if it was strong or not. But the stator and trigger are new from CDI. The coils and modules are working fine on the other engine. Batteries are great. Reeds look new stainless type. Hope that it will work.

 

[gica]

So I took it to the lake again yesterday and at first it was ok at idle in gear I even adjusted it at 750rpm. After driving it for awhile though it started dying in gear again. If I put it in gear quick and push it forward passed a certain point it stays but if I just click it in gear and leave it where it engages it dies. The engine though ran really good. There is another possibility, the gas in the tank is 1.5 years old and it started to go towards empty. Even though I used stabilizer I am thinking it is very old.
SO I HAVE A QUESTION
I changed the props tfrom 13x19 to 13.5 x5. It now goes to 5k RPM at WOT. But I have twin engines and if I only use one engine and push it passed 3k RPM it starts slipping and goes to 4k and 5k without moving the boat much. What the heck is that all about? And both engines do it. Are those props too small? When I use both it goes great takes on fast 5k at wot top speed 35MPH. There is not slipping. I am just worried that offshore with strong current they will not handle it especially if one engine goes. Should I use the 13x19? RPM with those was 4400.
Let me know and thanks

 

[jerryjerry05]

Two posts covering the same questions. Maybe add them together and delete the other.

 

[gica]

Yeah sorry about that, just looking for answers. Thanks Jerry.

 

[gica]

I nolonger get notifications for responses on my posts. Is everyone in the same boat?

 

[The Force power]

So I took it to the lake again yesterday and at first it was ok at idle in gear I even adjusted it at 750rpm. After driving it for awhile though it started dying in gear again. If I put it in gear quick and push it forward passed a certain point it stays but if I just click it in gear and leave it where it engages it dies. The engine though ran really good. There is another possibility, the gas in the tank is 1.5 years old and it started to go towards empty. Even though I used stabilizer I am thinking it is very old.

I don't think the age of the fuel is making it "dying in gear"
You can adjust the cam-roller ever so slightly so that the "primary pick up" is advanced, this "can" solve the dying in gear problem

 

[gica]

I don't think the age of the fuel is making it "dying in gear"
You can adjust the cam-roller ever so slightly so that the "primary pick up" is advanced, this "can" solve the dying in gear problem

I do suspect an adjustment might solve it. But if I adjust the roller where the 2 marks don't fall in the middle that won't cause issues right?

 

[The Force power]

I do suspect an adjustment might solve it. But if I adjust the roller where the 2 marks don't fall in the middle that won't cause issues right?

The position of the roller should stay where it is (if you followed Frank's instructions that has been sent to you before)
the only change your making now is in step 4
4 The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam.

With the engine running in neutral; turn the off-set screw/bolt so it touches more to a point where it ever so slightly is opening the carb butterflies (this will increase your RPM's)
This can also be done in gear! find a happy spot where the engine does not die when switching from neutral into gear

 

[gica]

Nevermind was gonna ask if it can be done in the parking lot in neutral. Notice you mentioned it can.