1990 Force 120HP #2 Cyl zero compression and upon opening piston shows damage

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Almost done with the rebuild wating on a part for the timing screw back plastic. Already replaced the front. Both broke in half.
Anybody know if the 120hp engine is supposed to move left and right easily by hand. Both of mine move but I have to push pretty hard, using both hands. There was solidified grease at the joint which I cleaned and sprayed BP Blaster. They both spin pretty hard on their respective axis. Remember there are 2 outboards.
Any ideas?
When I drove it last year it was easy to turn right but left required so pulling of the steering wheel.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,039
Just brief contact with a magnet will magnetize the bearings and they inturn will pickup any metal shavings and that will cause them to fail.
I thought that was BS but the factory manual warns against it.
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
So the motor is back and I started it after doing timing at 28BTDC it started and it runs pretty good compared to older ones I heard, no knocking or tapping just exhaust noise. It holds idle fine, I have to adjust the carbs and the idle.
I am looking at the trim system the motor goes up and down, once it is up it starts going down slowly until almost at the bottom. I bled it not sure the best method though.
Is it the cylinders, there are 2 one for up one for down I assume. Or is it the the pump at the motor, bottom of the container?
If so anybody know of kits to rebuild these? Thanks
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
So the motor is back and I started it after doing timing at 28BTDC it started and it runs pretty good compared to older ones I heard, no knocking or tapping just exhaust noise. It holds idle fine, I have to adjust the carbs and the idle.
I am looking at the trim system the motor goes up and down, once it is up it starts going down slowly until almost at the bottom. I bled it not sure the best method though.
Is it the cylinders, there are 2 one for up one for down I assume. Or is it the the pump at the motor, bottom of the container?
If so anybody know of kits to rebuild these? Thanks
Bought this one
 

The Force power

Commander
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
2,335
Just brief contact with a magnet will magnetize the bearings and they in turn will pickup any metal shavings and that will cause them to fail.
I thought that was BS but the factory manual warns against it.
Thank you Jerry, If I replied with that answer; it would of been bashed.
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Was looking at the trim fluid for these, and the book says 10w40nd I used power steering and trim gray bottle from Quicksilver and after doing some reading it seems that it is too thin. Most recommend ISO32 or 68. Or oil w30.
Could this be the cause for it being bumpy when lowered or because it doesn't stay up when lifted?
 
Last edited:

Nordin

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,555
Maybe bad seals, use regular 10W40 oil and see what happens.
Do not use power steering oil or ATF oil, it can hurt the seals.
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Is that what you used?
They say w30 is the safe all around lower viscosity that 10w40.
They recommend iso68 which is a SAE 20 the SAE30 is ISO100. So the 40 is even higher. Wanna make sure the outboards don get stuck from higher viscosity. Just asking. Thanks
 
Last edited:

Nordin

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,555
I am not very good at the T&T cause I have not worked on so many OB with T&T. Only follow the spec from the OEM workshop manual.
Have three OB with T&T, one Chrysler 45Hp, one 125Hp Force and one Chrysler 135Hp.
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
So I used the oil and it is still not staying up after lifting it up.
I got the cylinder kits
Can the valve body also be leaking?
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
Hello, wanted to update this posting, I rebuilt my lower drive on one of the 2 motors. Put it all back after checking for leaks at 10 psi. there was some gas leaking from the top carb so I removed the carb took of the bowl and replaced the completely dried up broken gasket, blew some compressed air put it back. The engine starts and then stops. Sometimes it stays 5 seconds and dies. If I move it in gear at higher rpm it stays if I lower it it stops. The alarm is also going on. This is a 1990. I have the cranking timing set properly.
if I raise the idle from the screw it doesn't help. Water pump impeller new original brand. It does not overheat not on long enough.
Need suggestions on this.
 

The Force power

Commander
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
2,335
The engine starts and then stops. Sometimes it stays 5 seconds and dies. If I move it in gear at higher rpm it stays if I lower it it stops. if I raise the idle from the screw it doesn't help. This is a 1990. I have the cranking timing set properly.
Did you check the fuel-pump? ALSO...
Here's the old post (from the late Frank) that I have printed out & live by;

1.Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller.
2. Loosen the screw(s) on the aluminum tie bar and let all carbs close completely, then tighten again.
3. Set the cam so that the scribed line is pointing directly at the black roller on the carb lever. If the cam has two closely spaced lines, set the black roller directly between them.
4. The black roller is held with an offset screw and nut. Loosen the nut and turn the screw until the black roller JUST touches the cam. Tighten the nut and re-attach the ball link maintaining the scribed line at the roller.
5. Adjust the ball link so that at full throttle the bottom carb butterfly opens substantially horizontally. Adjust the aluminum tie bar so all carb butterflies open equally at full throttle. They need not be perfect but should be rather close to horizontal for best performance.
6. Adjust timing to 28 degrees before top dead center at full throttle. ( STATIC TIMING / CRANKING SPEED )
7. Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.
8. NOW we adjust the mixture on the carbs. Set all low speed needles to about 1 1/4 turns out from lightly seated. Do not force as this will damage either the needles or the seats.
8A. With the engine idling in neutral, turn each the needles in equally about 1/8 turn at a time. Give the engine a couple of seconds between each adjustment to stabilize. Adjust until the engine either "sags" or stalls. Note this setting.
8B. Now go the opposite direction. Adjust until the engine runs rough, burbles, or stalls. Note this setting.
8C. Set all needles to the average between the two settings: That is, for example, if it stalled at 3/4 turn out and burbled at 1 1/4 out then set all needles to 1 turn out.
8D. Readjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM.
9. Take the boat out on the water and do a "hole shot"--Full throttle acceleration from a stop. If the engine "sags" then recovers and picks-up it is too lean. Open the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates with no hesitation.
If the engine sputters or coughs or burbles, then clears itself and accelerates, it is too rich. Close the needles about 1/16 turn at a time until the engine accelerates smoothly.

10. I can NOT stress this enough! NEVER set the low speed needles less that 1 turns out no matter how poor the idle or acceleration. To do so will run the engine too lean and detonation and melted pistons at or near full throttle operation will result.
The alarm is also going on.
Water pump impeller new original brand. It does not overheat not on long enough.
Need suggestions on this.
The pick-up tube may not be properly insert into the water-pump housing or at the top????
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
I did read that text before. I have to redo ot all from scratch. Timing at 28. Will check again. I have to also check the coils.
Funny before rebuilding cyl 2 was at 0 compression but held idle at 2500.
The top carb squarts a little gas through a side hole when I pump the gas to prime it. The bottom one does not. There is a little hole on the side. I already fixed the top bowl leak.
When I put the lower drive back I had a little problem getting it in. I trued every position possible. It went in really easy when engine is up. So I might have damaged something at the water pump.
I will remove and check again.
But can it be so sensitive as to have the alarm on right away?!
I did see some water coming out from the mid section right below the 2 little holes. Also there is a little coming through the holes also. ****. I cannot wait to get this thing on water already.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,857
Fuel should not leak out the float bowl vent hole.----Need to inspect both carburetors I say.
 

gica

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
495
It is only the top one when I prime it. If I try to start it I did not see a leak. I will have to look for sure.
 
Top