1990 Dual Force 120s one side showing 16.7v at speed with dual batteries

[gica]

Before I change the the rectifier again wanted to to ask for opinions. So I have dual batteries one deep cycle the other starting, have a 1,2 B switch, common ground between the 2 and another common across from the second set of batteries.
I changed the rectifier twice with a original Force black, then with an off the market square 6 wires. Both did the same worked one day showed 13.5v at high speed then all of a sudden 16.7v the other one has the square cgeappy and no problem. On 5his on I did buy the trigger and stator from CDI and am thinking maybe that is doing something.
The tach works fine but the 16 plus issue is bothering me. Read about it and people are split on some saying it won't hurt it and some that it is not good. Also read that using dual batteries an cause it. So on one of the batteries I have a connector switch for the fishing instruments.
Throw some testing ideas or opinions on me. Thanks in advance guys.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Using Deep Cycle and regular batteries together might be part of the problem.
The charging system on a Force isn't really meant to charge Deep Cycle batteries. It can do damage to the charging system.

 

[dingbat]

So I have dual batteries one deep cycle the other starting, have a 1,2 B switch, common ground between the 2 and another common across from the second set of batteries.

So in reality you have 4 batteries connected to the switch?
What is the output of these other two batteries tied to?

Both did the same worked one day showed 13.5v at high speed then all of a sudden 16.7v the other one has the square cgeappy and no problem.

Batteries been load tested?
All battery cabling and connections good, clean and secure?

Also read that using dual batteries an cause it.

Poppycock…..batteries don’t “suck” power, they absorb it.

So on one of the batteries I have a connector switch for the fishing instruments.

This can cause your problem depending on how and when you use it.

 

[The Force power]

As jerryjerry mentioned don't use a deep cycle & regular starting battery, they have different charging rate ( absorb voltage)
Your best solution(in my opinion) is to get a rectifier/regulator that can handle the max output of the stator, their relative cheap & available ($40)
This will solve your issue

 

[cyclops222]

If your Lead Acid batteries get too far run down. Like to 12.0 volts.
They DECREASE in resistance to become almost like a piece of Copper wire. THey will draw so much amps from the rectifier that the rectifier may COOK / overheat to death. Been there with the Evinrude 30 hp & 9.9 hp rectifiers. I had to put in a SWITCH like you have. Reason is simple, As the battery is charged past 15 volts. It now can burn out or damage any electrical equipment if left on.
What is needed is a Combination Rectifier AND VOLTAGE REGULATOR . OR a separate Battery Voltage Regulator that stops charging the battery at about 13.5 vdc or about 14 vdc.
I looked on the web for combination unit from 4 wheelers but most had a lot of negative posts.
I now just reduce my periods of high on plane speeds when the battery hits 15. vdc. Battery is fully charged. First check of voltage on the F F voltage settings is 12 .6 vdc. Before, during and after a 2 second cold engine cranking. The F F voltage meter section evem shows the cranking voltage.
A switch to disconnect ALL electrical equipment is NEEDED !! Or be sure you Check the FF voltmeter as soon as you start the NO RACING UP the cold engine.
Post if any body has a great separate, regulator in their boat.

 

[dingbat]

As jerryjerry mentioned don't use a deep cycle & regular starting battery, they have different charging rate ( absorb voltage)

Assuming they are both flooded acid batteries, there is no difference between a starting and deep cycle battery except the deep cycle has thicker lead plates than starter batteries, which allows for a deeper discharge without damage.

The caution comes from the deep discharge rates typically put on deep cycle battery.

Time is of the essence when it comes to charging batteries. Leaving a battery is a semi-discharged state is detrimental to its life expectancy. A low output charging system simply doesn’t have enough output to fully replenish the deeply discharged battery in a timely fashion.

The combination is detrimental to battery life, not the charging system.

 

[dingbat]

First check of voltage on the F F voltage settings is 12 .6 vdc. Before, during and after a 2 second cold engine cranking. The F F voltage meter section evem shows the cranking voltage

Maybe, maybe not…..that test on my FF would turn up 12.0 volts for either condition.

Spent almost an hour attempting to track down a decrepancy between battery voltage and the value reported on my MFD.

Took a call to customer support, then transferred to engineering, to figure out that the voltage being reported is the “system” voltage…..taken off the unit’s internal (regulated) power supply. Will always read 12v until input (battery) voltage drops below the power supplies threshold to regulate to 12 volts

 

[cyclops222]

I am lucky then. Mine has a reprogrammable and varying actual battery voltage value. Also able to set low voltage alarm point. Which does sound off nicely.
Just so much STUFF that we need to keep track of.
I can not remember the name & model of my fish finders. 1 of the 2 was ruined by excessive high battery recharging at W OT run home. I checked the F F voltage reading and saw 27 volts. It scrambled the different functions of the F F. Ruined They are Garmin Striker series. Older than me.

 

[gica]

So in reality you have 4 batteries connected to the switch?
What is the output of these other two batteries tied to?

Batteries been load tested?
All battery cabling and connections good, clean and secure?


Poppycock…..batteries don’t “suck” power, they absorb it.

This can cause your problem depending on how and when you use it.

So I pulled a wire straight from the battery to a fuse box and the Lowrance Pro and Live is connect D to the fuse box.
It was wired like this before I got the boat. The long ground wire that connects port batteries to star board batteries was there.
The port side doesn't have the overcharge issue.
I have to look at the batteries a nd see if they are both the same.
The starboard side hasa car king and another that does both suposetly. It is a hybrid.
IBoth sides have the 1,2B switches.
So since I use one battery for the fishing instruments if I don't hook that one to the charging system from the motor would that solve the problem? That battery should last for awhile without being charged.
The Force 120 from 1990 is a 7A charging system?! Not 14. I could be wrong.
Jerry?

 

[The Force power]

Assuming they are both flooded acid batteries, there is no difference between a starting and deep cycle battery except the deep cycle has thicker lead plates than starter batteries, which allows for a deeper discharge without damage.

The caution comes from the deep discharge rates typically put on deep cycle battery.

Time is of the essence when it comes to charging batteries. Leaving a battery is a semi-discharged state is detrimental to its life expectancy. A low output charging system simply doesn’t have enough output to fully replenish the deeply discharged battery in a timely fashion.

The combination is detrimental to battery life, not the charging system.

My solution was a solar panel charged my deep cycle & my starting battery was charged by the motor with a rectifier/regulator; never had a problem after that

 

[Jiggz]

So I pulled a wire straight from the battery to a fuse box and the Lowrance Pro and Live is connect D to the fuse box.
It was wired like this before I got the boat. The long ground wire that connects port batteries to star board batteries was there.
The port side doesn't have the overcharge issue.
I have to look at the batteries a nd see if they are both the same.
The starboard side hasa car king and another that does both suposetly. It is a hybrid.
IBoth sides have the 1,2B switches.
So since I use one battery for the fishing instruments if I don't hook that one to the charging system from the motor would that solve the problem? That battery should last for awhile without being charged.
The Force 120 from 1990 is a 7A charging system?! Not 14. I could be wrong.
Jerry?

That is correct the charging system is 7 amps AND REGULATED! This means the original rectifier comes with a built in voltage regulator. Note voltage regulator not current regulator. However, since the stator is an after market, it could mean the original rectifier specs is not sufficient anymore. Your best bet is to find a rectifier-regulator with higher specs, i.e 16-30 amps rated with voltage regulation around 13.4-14.5 volts. Remember, just because the rectifier is rated at 30 or even 50 amps that it'll charge such high current. No, instead it indicates it can handle high current as high as 30-50 amps. And the same holds true with its voltage rating.

 

[gica]

Ok so I am changing the stator I bought a 1 through 6 wire stator from a different Force and was told I can just use the 1 through 4 wires and disregard the 5 and 6. So the 3 and 4 wires are short, can I use 5 and 6 along with 1 and 2?
Pictors of 6 wire plus yellows and 4 wires plus yellows and another 6 wire plus yellows included
Model for the #1 through #6 is FCC3007K.
The original wasFCC3007F

 

[gica]

As jerryjerry mentioned don't use a deep cycle & regular starting battery, they have different charging rate ( absorb voltage)
Your best solution(in my opinion) is to get a rectifier/regulator that can handle the max output of the stator, their relative cheap & available ($40)
This will solve your issue

The stator is a brand new CDI brand model 176-3095 Can you recommend a rectifier regulator for it?
And if I do replace it as you mentioned can I still keep the deep cycle battery in the mix?

 

[Jiggz]

Have you tried those Universal Rectifier/Regulator used on ATV"s? Many people including me had success in using this type of reg/rect. They used to sell for about $40 before but now seems to almost double up. Anyways, you can search for Universal 12V Regulator/Rectifier. Personally I'll be looking with amp rating of at least 15~20 amps or around 200 watts. There are many types but you want to stick with those 4 wires only type. Here's a pic.

 

[gica]

Have you tried those Universal Rectifier/Regulator used on ATV"s? Many people including me had success in using this type of reg/rect. They used to sell for about $40 before but now seems to almost double up. Anyways, you can search for Universal 12V Regulator/Rectifier. Personally I'll be looking with amp rating of at least 15~20 amps or around 200 watts. There are many types but you want to stick with those 4 wires only type. Here's a pic.View attachment 401850

I have 2 of those but they are 5 or 6 wires. 15 to 20 amps. Funny that the port motor doesn't have this issue. As I said the boat came with a long black wire across the way from one battery set to the other. Have no clue if that is standard but I will remove it though I don't think having common negative across can affect one side only with the same set up as far as trigger, stator. The difference is the rectifoer one is universal and the other is the black rectangular from Force.
I did buy a CDI one but have not installed it yet. I noticed the 155-1450 has a regulator built in. I don't know it the force original does.
CDI just responded that on 2 stroke you have to charge one battery at a time and also use a lead acid.

 

[Jiggz]

Can you post pics of the universal type you have? At least the 5 wire one. It might work if the extra wire is only for the tach. Charging one battery one at a time might make sense as it gives the rectifier a time off peak charging. So removing that black wire across the two negatives could help. Not sure about charging Deep Cycle batteries, as it's the only type I use on my boat for the last 10+ years. And never had problems with it. The only reason I replaced the OEM Force rectifier, because it's not regulated and can peak to 16+ at high speed.

 

[gica]

Can you post pics of the universal type you have? At least the 5 wire one. It might work if the extra wire is only for the tach. Charging one battery one at a time might make sense as it gives the rectifier a time off peak charging. So removing that black wire across the two negatives could help. Not sure about charging Deep Cycle batteries, as it's the only type I use on my boat for the last 10+ years. And never had problems with it. The only reason I replaced the OEM Force rectifier,

because it's not regulated and can peak to 16+ at high speed.

So this is the starboard motor with the issue. It has an older type rectifier. I am also including picture of the batteries. Both are SuperStart Marine one startimg one deep cycle. Marine starting is bottom of the page
Inclueed is picture of tye 2 completely rebuilt force engines.
And a picture of the completely redone dash. I had to epoxy it and fit 2 of tge 9 inch Lowrance screens. The original setup was really black and ugly and poor.

 

[gica]

This one is the port side with the universal rectifier/regulator. It was on the boat when I got it never overcharged.
Again deep cyvle bat on the top

 

[topgun3690]

I used one of these on mine. Has worked very well at taming the high voltages I was getting. Less than $40......

01-090-1 - Universal Voltage Regulator (01-154-16)

Universal Voltage Regulator

www.mfgsupply.com

 

[gica]

I used one of these on mine. Has worked very well at taming the high voltages I was getting. Less than $40......

01-090-1 - Universal Voltage Regulator (01-154-16)

Universal Voltage Regulator

www.mfgsupply.com

On your Force outboard?