1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Engine does not backfire.

I am not sure or the RPM as i don't have a meter for that, but it seems a bit faster now than before, before i always thought it was a bit slow.

I am not aware of the fast start feature, but i think i may have found it before by accident. Is it where i thake my throttle lever on my control box (driver seat) and pull it towred me then push it foreward like i am trying to give it foreward throttle? If so, then i have not been doing this and have never done this or had to.
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Yes, that is the fast start feature.

Force engines need this for several reasons.
1, they use racing plugs which foul easily when cold at low rpm
2, the engine exhausts mainly through the snout with only a couple of relief holes on the mid leg. This results in exhaust back pressure which it needs higher rpm on starting to overcome.
3. They use a rectifier instead of a regulator and it doesn't start charging until you get to about 2000 rpm or so.

The proper start procedure is

Open fuel vent
Pump ball until hard
Put throttle in fast idle position
Choke engine when starting.

Try it and see what happens.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Yes, that is the fast start feature.

Force engines need this for several reasons.
1, they use racing plugs which foul easily when cold at low rpm
2, the engine exhausts mainly through the snout with only a couple of relief holes on the mid leg. This results in exhaust back pressure which it needs higher rpm on starting to overcome.
3. They use a rectifier instead of a regulator and it doesn't start charging until you get to about 2000 rpm or so.

The proper start procedure is

Open fuel vent
Pump ball until hard
Put throttle in fast idle position
Choke engine when starting.

Try it and see what happens.


Thanks, i never knew about that and i have been starting it wrong for 4 years:rolleyes: I will try that tonight, but the last couple times i tried to start it it would not even start, just kept spinning the flywheel trying to turn over.

Any thoughts on my new stator having over 400V and the test i did on the CD mod without getting any reading? Would it be possible for the engine to start with a blown CD mod?

Thanks
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Like I said before, if 1 CD circuit is bad, usually these engine will start but not run at their rated power. When the engine is at idle, sometimes you won't be able to tell if it is operating on 1 cylinder.

The most readily available test to see if you have a bad cylinder is to pull off a plug wire with the engine running at idle. Use a rag so you don't get bit and put it back on as soon as possible. Continued running with a plug wire off is no good for CDI modules.

If you pull a wire off and the engine keeps running as it has been, the cylinder is dead. If you pull a wire off and the engine runs but not as good as it was, the cylinder is firing. If you pull it off and the engine quits immediately, the other cylinder is suspect.

Let us know.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

I did the fast start and the engine will not turn over. If i messed up the plug wire by bending the connection would that cause this, or could the engine turn over with 1 plug wire not connected or broken? This is getting out of hand:mad:
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

"will not turn over" means the starter will not turn the crankshaft. Is that the problem you are having now, or do you have a problem where the "engine will not fire" which means it is not starting?

I'm a bit confused by your statement.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

"will not turn over" means the starter will not turn the crankshaft. Is that the problem you are having now, or do you have a problem where the "engine will not fire" which means it is not starting?

I'm a bit confused by your statement.

Starter is fine. it just keeps spinning the flywheel, but the engine will not start.
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Try spraying some contact cleaner in your ignition switch and work it back and forth. Do the same to your kill switch if you have one.

Since you didn't do anything that could lead to this condition, maybe you have an intermittant ignition or kill switch.

John
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Try spraying some contact cleaner in your ignition switch and work it back and forth. Do the same to your kill switch if you have one.

Since you didn't do anything that could lead to this condition, maybe you have an intermittant ignition or kill switch.

John

Will try. This did not start happening until i hit the 1 plug wire with a hammer. Can you start a outboard with a1 broken plug wire? I took apart the wire and wrapped it around the plug and the same thing happens.
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

If you wrapped it around the plug, it would spark if the CDI was discharging to the coil. Have you verified that you are still getting spark?
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

If you wrapped it around the plug, it would spark if the CDI was discharging to the coil. Have you verified that you are still getting spark?


When you said look at the ignition and kill switch, i did and found that the plunger on my kill switch was not fully depressed(thanks John:D). When i took off the kill switch tab, i must of bent the retention spring a bit.

It fired right up today and kept running for 1 to 2 min. that's as long as i could run it as i was late for work. It started and idoled great, i put it in forward and reverse a couple times and it went in and out great and went right back to idol when in neutral. I used that fast start feature and it started and ran without any hiccups or studders.

It seemed to be running about 1/2 throttle as far as RPM go (in that Fast start mode)with alot more exaust smoke than idol, although i am not sure what my engine is supposed to be until i look it up later.

So i wont know if i got it all fixed and got all my power back until Sat. or Sun. when i can get it in the water under a load.

1) Is there any chance that the loose plug wire was letting me run the engine for the 10 sec. or so, then vibrated out a bit and killed the cylinder causing the engine to die?

2) Is it possible that me tightening the plug wire fixed that cylinder from cutting out, thus letting the engine run good without dying (after i fixed my killswitch)?


Before all of this with my bad stator the engine would die almost every time i went to put it in gear---no so far it hasen't. Looking like the stator was the only prob. i am thinking/hoping? There may be light at the end of the tunnel yet.
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

1) Is there any chance that the loose plug wire was letting me run the engine for the 10 sec. or so, then vibrated out a bit and killed the cylinder causing the engine to die?

It is possible, in conjunction with not having it in the fast idle position.

2) Is it possible that me tightening the plug wire fixed that cylinder from cutting out, thus letting the engine run good without dying (after i fixed my killswitch)?

That and using the right starting procedure makes all the difference in the world.

As far as the smoke, the engine will smoke more in the fast idle position. It will also run at about 2000 to 2200 rpm. You only have to let it sit there for a couple of minutes, until the engine gets a little warm.

Have a good weekend on the water. I expect you to come back and say you were running at 50 mph. ;)
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

I wll let you know, and appreciate the time you took to help a noob out.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Great news for me, it ran like a scalded dog:D Just as good as before and it actually idols better and stronger and starts before i can even let the key go. Thanks John.
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Good for you! Now get out and enjoy what's left of the summer! ;)
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

I noticed some black soot on top of my flywheel and under the flywheel. It also has some small specs. of debris like little balls of soot that is being thrown around. It is not grease or oil, is it possible that the flywheel or stator is rubbing something?
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Some Force cowls have insulation inside. As they age, they start to deteriorate. Check and see if that is your problem. If so, clean it all up as it will clog up your carbs eventually.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Mine does have the insulation and 1 piece has always hung loose, hopefully that is it. I will glue it back down and clean up and try check it out. Think that would cause a black smoot though? It looks like brake dust ( for comparison).
 

john from md

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

I can't think of anything else that can make a fine dust off the top of my head.
 

j1r11

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Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Right again John:D. some of my insulation was rubbing on the flywheel.
 
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