1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

[j1r11]

Hi all, great forum and lost of knowledge here, so hopefully someone can help. I suspect my stater is bad, it idols rough and has been giving me issues when warm starting, and anything more than 5mph and i get sputtering and vibrating. It will only go 1/4 to 1/2 spreed even when in full throttle and sputters bad. I am getting fuel at carb and i have inspected the puel lines and pump. I have a peak DVA tester and a clymer manual and it on 2 of the stater wires it only reached 100V (DVA) and the other set reached 300V.

I cannot do a resistance test correctly because my manual shows 1 or 2 wires that are not correct in color. I also want to test the CD mod, i have a red striped wire comming out of the CD that goes into 1 of my coils and i have a orange striped wire that comes from the CD and goes into the other coil. These 2 wires have a plastic connector.

My manual says to test the CD to unsnap the red stripe wire and use DVA meter 2.0 with black lead to that red stripe wire comming out of the CD to the coil (not connected) and test lead to engine ground and i should have .3V or more. It says do this process for both wires (red stripe and orange stripe), when i do this i get no reading, even if i reverse the leads. Help would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

No matter what color wire you have going to the coil from the CD module, that is your CD output. If you use a DVA adapter on your meter, you should get output when the trigger fires the CDI module.

You do know you have to crank the engine and the kill switch has to be open to do this test.

John

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

I did not know about the kill switch, i just have been leaving the spark plug leads off. I tested the trigger and 1 test was good, but was not sure about the resistance test because the wire color issue.

Should i be testing the coil side of the wire or the CDI side of the wire, the wire from the coil to CDI has a connection i t says to disconnect, but does not say which side to test. All my (thin) trigger wires come from the trigger to a terminal block, then the oppside of the terminal block where the wires connect is a thicker set of wires that runs to the CDI, then the 1 wire that runs to each coil.

I ran the boat for 30 sec. with the overheat buzzer on, when i found seaweed blocking the water intake, and it has been messed up ever since. I also noticed looking underneath up at the stator that it looks like 1 coil is dark brown or black, like it may be burnt.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

If it was overheated and the stator looks dark, I would pull the flywheel and check the stator out first. Any other course and you would just be spinning your wheels.

John

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Thanks, will do. Is there any chance i also fried the CD box doing all these tests starting the engine with the spark plug leads hanging and not grounded? If so, what the easiest way to tell?
J1r11

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

If you fried the CDI module, you will get a weak spark or none at all. This usually comes as a process of elimination after you have ohmed out the other components and found them good.

John

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

I took off the flywheel today to get the stator off, as i have a new one comming for $125 shipped monday. The drive shaft nut came off NP with a impact wrench/gun and no flywheel holding tool was needed.

I bought the flywheel puller for $10 from harbor freight and it worked perfectly except i bought 3 grade 8 3" 1/4" -20 thread bolts as none in the set fit and the washers that come with it are junk, so don't even bother with them, they will just bend. I also used the impact gun on the center puller bolt as i was beating up my hands with the reg wrench.

I used low pressure first and slowly worked uo till it was real tight and some light taps and medium hits with a hammer and i came right off making a "PING" noise. Anyway, here are some pics of my stator and a "suspect" burnt coil, any thoughts if this coil would be enough to make the stator not work properly.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing

It looks like that pole has overheated. Time to replace the stator.

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Do you think 1 bad coil would be enough to cause a 50% loss in power?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Its a possibility as there is a coil for each CDI circuit. If one coil was not working, you would only have one cylinder.

John

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Sorry, i should of said "pole" not coil. Do you think that burnt pole would cause a 50% loss in power?

 

[jason32038]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

It could cause that much of a loss of power. The stator powers the cdi packs and the ignition. Glad you had luck with the flywheel. I'm going to attempt to pull the flywheel on my old powerhead one more time with an impact wrench. Tried1/4-20 grade 8 but they broke easily. I had to drill and tap to 5/16th and still no luck. I think I ripped the bolt right out of the flywheel instead of breaking it.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Each of the two CDI coils runs around the 20 poles in the stator. In your case, it appears that the burned pole only affected one coil. If it affected both, you would not have any spark.

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Is there any way to test the new stator when it comes without putting the flywheel back on? Can i just hook up the wires and crank the engine without the flywheel on or would that be a no no?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Flywheel must be installed. It has the magnet that interacts with the stator windings to generate the voltage. Flywheel also has the gear for the starter to engage to spin the motor.

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

Flywheel must be installed. It has the magnet that interacts with the stator windings to generate the voltage. Flywheel also has the gear for the starter to engage to spin the motor.

Ahh, makes sense now. My magnet is flexiable and goes around the entire inside of the flywheel and i noticed it has a mfg. cut line in it that allows me to pull it out. Is this supposed to be glued in? I pulled it a bit to see, but id did not seemed glued and when i put it back it conformed back to the correct shape and held firm.

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

It could cause that much of a loss of power. The stator powers the cdi packs and the ignition. Glad you had luck with the flywheel. I'm going to attempt to pull the flywheel on my old powerhead one more time with an impact wrench. Tried1/4-20 grade 8 but they broke easily. I had to drill and tap to 5/16th and still no luck. I think I ripped the bolt right out of the flywheel instead of breaking it.

I did spray it with penetrating oil for a bit. Try impacting it on a low setting that barely moves it for 10 sec. or so, just using the vibration to try and unbreak it. I noticed the puller has to be level on all sides to pull evenly, so check that also. I had a bit of rust (not bad) under there and that is what is prob. giving you a hard time. As you impact harder watch the center pull bolt( on your puller) to see if it is pulling, then try the hammer. What washers are you using? I used 2 grade 8 on each bolt, 1 set of 1/4" X 3/4" and 1 set of 1/4" X 1".

Maybe the center pull bolt was tightened down too much before using the hammer? The grade 8 bolt teeth are prob. harder that the threads on your wheel, maybe thats why they pulled out. I considered that when i did it but i thought the bolt would break before that. Were you tapping it with the hammer every couple turns or so? I am glad i did not have the issues you ran into, as i hope to take the boat on vacation in a week as long as my stator fixes my problem.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

The flexible "strip magnet" should be epoxied in place. It needs to stay attached to the flywheel so that it spins around the stator assy. If it comes off of the flywheel, they usually stick to the stator and will no longer spin. When that happens, no more voltage is generated and ignition system (and charging system) stops working. Use some JB weld or similar epoxy that will stand up to the engine heat to glue it back.

 

[j1r11]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

The flexible "strip magnet" should be epoxied in place. It needs to stay attached to the flywheel so that it spins around the stator assy. If it comes off of the flywheel, they usually stick to the stator and will no longer spin. When that happens, no more voltage is generated and ignition system (and charging system) stops working. Use some JB weld or similar epoxy that will stand up to the engine heat to glue it back.

Do you think this will work? It is a thick paste, but i can thin it out. I think the magnet is only loose in a 4" spot.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1988 "D" Force 50 ignition testing (stator pics)

The standard JB weld, available at almost any store, is the epoxy that you need here. The marine epoxy is made to bulk up and be waterproof.

The standard epoxy is much easier to apply and will have less bulk which is important in this application.