1988 50 hp force no spark?

[Jiggz]

Well, sometimes troubleshooting takes more than one major part to deal with. I am presuming you are using a DVA adapter for the voltage readings. You can check the trigger output using a DVA adapter and you should get 0.5+volt, at least. Reading is taken between wire pairs (green and orange twisted together). If you do not get any voltage reading, check make sure the resistance of the trigger is around 48-52 ohms. If resistance is good, check the magnet on the center of the flywheel to make sure it's still in there and not damaged.

If trigger voltage reading is OK, then disconnect one of the cd-coil module brown wires from the terminal board and tape it off temporarily. Now check for for sparks on that particular cd-coil module with brown wire disconnected. If spark is present, then something in the wiring where the brown connects is grounded or inadvertently wired incorrectly. However, if you do not get sparks, try doing the same with the other cd-coil module. If there's spark then the other cd-coil you tested without spark is bad. Very seldom both will go bad but it's possible.

While at it, check the black wire on each cd-coil module that both are connected to ground.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Well, sometimes troubleshooting takes more than one major part to deal with. I am presuming you are using a DVA adapter for the voltage readings. You can check the trigger output using a DVA adapter and you should get 0.5+volt, at least. Reading is taken between wire pairs (green and orange twisted together). If you do not get any voltage reading, check make sure the resistance of the trigger is around 48-52 ohms. If resistance is good, check the magnet on the center of the flywheel to make sure it's still in there and not damaged.

If trigger voltage reading is OK, then disconnect one of the cd-coil module brown wires from the terminal board and tape it off temporarily. Now check for for sparks on that particular cd-coil module with brown wire disconnected. If spark is present, then something in the wiring where the brown connects is grounded or inadvertently wired incorrectly. However, if you do not get sparks, try doing the same with the other cd-coil module. If there's spark then the other cd-coil you tested without spark is bad. Very seldom both will go bad but it's possible.

While at it, check the black wire on each cd-coil module that both are connected to ground.

Ok sir, back to the testing procedures. Just in case, the place where I found the stator from also had the trigger and 1 coil unit. I purchased both of them from them. I have been searching relentlessly for over a year now for parts for this particular motor and ran in to a dead end. I stumbled on to a coil pack in Australia and they wanted $1300.00 for it and sold it for that. So, I bought it and the trigger and if nothing else, I'm sure I can get my money back easily off of eBay. If it turns out I need it, well jolly jolly for me! Anyway, thanks again for your help. I very much appreciate you taking the time to work with me on this issue! I am about to head out in the shop and begin testing as your instruction. I will report back with my findings this evening.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Ok sir, back to the testing procedures. Just in case, the place where I found the stator from also had the trigger and 1 coil unit. I purchased both of them from them. I have been searching relentlessly for over a year now for parts for this particular motor and ran in to a dead end. I stumbled on to a coil pack in Australia and they wanted $1300.00 for it and sold it for that. So, I bought it and the trigger and if nothing else, I'm sure I can get my money back easily off of eBay. If it turns out I need it, well jolly jolly for me! Anyway, thanks again for your help. I very much appreciate you taking the time to work with me on this issue! I am about to head out in the shop and begin testing as per your instruction. I will report back with my findings this evening.

On a side note, I will tell you how this issue all began. I had the engine running and was tuning the carb when a couple wires came off of my ignition switch somehow. The engine died and I could smell electrical wires burning so I hurried and unhooked the battery. The smoke I smelled was also visible and it was coming out from somewhere close to the flywheel. So I know something fried in or around the flywheel area. The rest has been trying to figure out what fried and fix. That's where you and a couple other kind gents have guided me through the process I'm going through now. Thought maybe it might help to give you that information as to where it all began.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Well, sometimes troubleshooting takes more than one major part to deal with. I am presuming you are using a DVA adapter for the voltage readings. You can check the trigger output using a DVA adapter and you should get 0.5+volt, at least. Reading is taken between wire pairs (green and orange twisted together). If you do not get any voltage reading, check make sure the resistance of the trigger is around 48-52 ohms. If resistance is good, check the magnet on the center of the flywheel to make sure it's still in there and not damaged.

If trigger voltage reading is OK, then disconnect one of the cd-coil module brown wires from the terminal board and tape it off temporarily. Now check for for sparks on that particular cd-coil module with brown wire disconnected. If spark is present, then something in the wiring where the brown connects is grounded or inadvertently wired incorrectly. However, if you do not get sparks, try doing the same with the other cd-coil module. If there's spark then the other cd-coil you tested without spark is bad. Very seldom both will go bad but it's possible.

While at it, check the black wire on each cd-coil module that both are connected to ground.

I don't have a DVA adapter but I do have an analog DVA multimeter that does regular volts, amps and ohms as well. I bought it just for this project.
Since I had recently reglued the magnet back in place, that's the first thing I checked when I didn't have spark yesterday. It visually looked new. I cleaned it up real good with brake cleaner then again with pure alcohol. It looks like a new one.

 

[Jiggz]

I don't have a DVA adapter but I do have an analog DVA multimeter that does regular volts, amps and ohms as well. I bought it just for this project.
Since I had recently reglued the magnet back in place, that's the first thing I checked when I didn't have spark yesterday. It visually looked new. I cleaned it up real good with brake cleaner then again with pure alcohol. It looks like a new one.

The magnets for the stator (mounted on the circumferential side of the flywheel) is different from the magnet for the trigger (mounted on the very center of the flywheel. Very seldom this magnets fall off. But with the preceding background history of this engine, I would not be surprised if its the wire to the cd-coil or the cd-coil itself is burnt. I am saying this because with the ignition switch, there's only one live wire marked as "B" which stands for battery. The "I" terminal in the ignition switch is not really for ignition as it's supposed to indicate. Instead, it just powers the accessories like the over temp switch and gauges and lights and radio. The "M" terminals are just for shutting down the motor or engine by grounding the shut down wire of the CD-coil module's brown wire, and these wires are only energized when the motor is running. "C" terminal is for choke and "S" is for the Neutral Safety switch.

So if the engine died while running because some wires from the ignition switch fell off, there are only two sets of wires that can cause to burn, the "B" or battery wire (but this wire is connected to a ckt breaker, so check to make sure the ckt breaker is not tripped. But if the motor cranks over with the starter motor, then it's an indication it is not tripped) and/or the "M" terminal wires only because the motor is running and these wires are energized. The "C" choke wire if shorted to the battery will not burn but energized the choke system and that will also stop the engine if it's running. Double check the wirings and make sure none is shorted and/or shorted to ground.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Well I tested the trigger and I have 0 voltage coming from it. As per the service manual, it says to unhook all 4 trigger wires, attach the black lead to the red wire and the red lead to the green wire and crank engine. Says I should have .5 volts or higher and I had 0. It said if 0 volts, replace the trigger. I have one ordered and it should be here in a couple days. I also have 1 of the coils coming too. That's all they had because they had already sold the other one. That's as far as I got this evening. I will do more testing when I can.

 

[Jiggz]

Well I tested the trigger and I have 0 voltage coming from it. As per the service manual, it says to unhook all 4 trigger wires, attach the black lead to the red wire and the red lead to the green wire and crank engine. Says I should have .5 volts or higher and I had 0. It said if 0 volts, replace the trigger. I have one ordered and it should be here in a couple days. I also have 1 of the coils coming too. That's all they had because they had already sold the other one. That's as far as I got this evening. I will do more testing when I can.

Unless, you are using a DVA (Direct Voltage Adapter) adapter for voltage reading on the trigger it is really very hard to take such low and high speed transient voltage. Not really sure what you meant by DVA analog multimeter. Digital multimeter like Fluke are referred to as DVM or Digital Volt/Multimeter or Digital Volt-Meter. How about the resistance of the trigger, what was it? Also check the insulation resistance by reading ohms between one of the wires to ground, i.e. black probe to ground and the red probe to any of the wires. You should get infinity or very high resistance in mega ohms, meaning the wiring is not shorted to ground and it is good.

 

[Nordin]

As jiggz says check insulation for the trigger wires to ground.
From my experience the trigger voltage goes up to 2-5V but as jiggz says 0 Volt you are measure and 0,5V DVA is pretty close so a DVA adapter connect to your Fluke is needed to confirm if the triggers are okey..
As you mention you got smoke from under the flywheel from wires at keyswitch coming loose, that is not a good sign.
12V at triggers or CD boxes killswitch etc will damage the electronics.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

As jiggz says check insulation for the trigger wires to ground.
From my experience the trigger voltage goes up to 2-5V but as jiggz says 0 Volt you are measure and 0,5V DVA is pretty close so a DVA adapter connect to your Fluke is needed to confirm if the triggers are okey..
As you mention you got smoke from under the flywheel from wires at keyswitch coming loose, that is not a good sign.
12V at triggers or CD boxes killswitch etc will damage the electronics.

I am going to check everything you guys mentioned above. I am confused a little about the adapter versus the meter I bought. In my service manual, it shows a DVA meter exactly like the one I bought. On the different options to select on the meter, one of them is DVA voltage. I will buy an adapter as you guys mentioned and compare the voltages and see if they are the same. If the forum would let me upload pics, I would send you a pic of what the service manual said I needed and have the one I bought in the pic too. even the meter scales and ranges are exact to the one the manual said I needed. To be honest, this is the first thing I have ever came across that required a different meter from the one I already had. I'll buy whatever I need to get it right though. I will order the adapter after I log out here. I completely trust that you guys know what you are talking about. After I wrap things up here, I will get out to the shop where my boat is and check everything you guys mentioned and let you know my findings. Thank you for your time in helping me with this!

 

[Nordin]

Maybe your multimeter has a DVA range.
There are DVA multimeters out there on the market ... yes.
What a DVA adapter does or actually contain are a capacitor a diod and a resistor.
The diod rectifie the AC voltage and the voltage is then stored in the capacitor.
With a regular VOM or multimeter you are able to read the peak voltage from the triggers or stator or what ever you are measuring as the peak voltage is stored in the capacitor.

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Maybe your multimeter has a DVA range.
There are DVA multimeters out there on the market ... yes.
What a DVA adapter does or actually contain are a capacitor a diod and a resistor.
The diod rectifie the AC voltage and the voltage is then stored in the capacitor.
With a regular VOM or multimeter you are able to read the peak voltage from the triggers or stator or what ever you are measuring as the peak voltage is stored in the capacitor.

I ordered the DVA adapter yesterday and it shows it is out for delivery. It is compatible to my Fluke meter. I will attach it today and retest my trigger and see what it shows. I will return to the forum with my findings later today

 

[Jiggz]

I ordered the DVA adapter yesterday and it shows it is out for delivery. It is compatible to my Fluke meter. I will attach it today and retest my trigger and see what it shows. I will return to the forum with my findings later today

With the DVA adapter connected to the Fluke multimeter, your selector setting should be on DC voltage. And then place the meter on peak hold (or something like that) wherein the highest voltage read is displayed even after you took off the probes off the stuff you are reading. You can post pic using different pages and just have a link on your post. In this way we can see exactly what we are talking about. If your multimeter has a DVA setting maybe it has DVA adapter built on it. Here's a very good example. Note the DVA selection is also the same color or side as the DC Voltage selection. This is because with a DVA built in, the voltage reading is taken at the DC voltage. DVA Multimeter

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

With the DVA adapter connected to the Fluke multimeter, your selector setting should be on DC voltage. And then place the meter on peak hold (or something like that) wherein the highest voltage read is displayed even after you took off the probes off the stuff you are reading. You can post pic using different pages and just have a link on your post. In this way we can see exactly what we are talking about. If your multimeter has a DVA setting maybe it has DVA adapter built on it. Here's a very good example. Note the DVA selection is also the same color or side as the DC Voltage selection. This is because with a DVA built in, the voltage reading is taken at the DC voltage. DVA Multimeter

I just received the trigger and coil pack I found on eBay the other day. I'm gonna do the testing again since my new DVA adapter also came in today instead of yesterday. I will let you guys know what I found out later this evening when I come in from my shop. I hope I'm gonna be telling you how good it's running now and that I am going back to my restoration of the boat! Fingers crossed!!

 

[Jiggz]

Well, we are on the 3rd page of this thread hopefully, it'll be the last page. Goodluck!

 

[blue fin bass dominator]

Hey guys! I wanted to thank you for all the help you gave me during my troubled times trying to regain spark on my Force 50. You guys taught me a lot about troubleshooting and the processes to go through. The Stator, Trigger and Rectifier were all ok so now I have spares that I hope to not need for a long time. It ended up being the coil packs. Both of them were burned up. I actually found a place here in Oklahoma City that had some parts for the 507Y8C motor and was able to purchase the other coil I hadn't found yet through them. They were proud of them but $200.00 a piece was better than others I had found on the Internet. She is running now and purrs like a kitty cat. I had to do a little tuning on the carb but that was minor in comparison to the spark issue. Again, thanks so much for all your help, if you were local, I would definitely treat you to a steak dinner. I'm also glad I found iboats and this forum. It has been so helpful and I will buy parts here and recommend the site to my boat buddies. You guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jiggz]

Hoooooooyyyyyaaaaah! Enjoy the rest of what is left of this summer! Thank you for letting us know how it came out to be. Enjoy!!!

 

[Nordin]

Nice to hear that our advice was succesful.
Enjoy rest of the boating season.

 

[woody92981]

Did you try reading between a blue wire and a yellow wire? Based on the original schematic, there should only be 4 wires from your stator. 2-Blue Wires and 2 Green/Yellow wire. If there are six wires then that stator is not the original stator with 6 wires there should be 2-Blue, 2-Yellow and 2- Green/Yellow. If you have two green/yellow for the rectifier then the other 2 remaining wires should be brown or solid yellow. This is an indication the stator is for the "D" model. Check schematic again.

My stator i just recieved has 8 wires. 88 force 50h.p "b" ignition. Does any1 know how i would wire that? Everything ive tried i now have no spark

 

[Nordin]

Please read the rules of this forum.
Start your own thread, cause it is easy to mix the issues and what you have done when troubleshooting with the other one in the thread.