1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I chime in here. You still have all the hoses and crap for the factory 1987 water thermostat system. If you do I would remove all the hoses, water control valve and plug off every feed line. Replace them with the setup I put on mine and I rebuilt it. You just need to buy the covers new springs (tweek them to 1.75" long buy cutting them to length), gasket and new t-stats. The old system parts are not all available anymore. Plus when the old system failed the motor failed. The system I am sugesting you use is basic and the water pump lifts the stats off the seats when you get above 1500 rpm. You don't need to equalize the water pressure between each side and crap.

Just a recommendation. Also search for the rework on here. I look for it and forward you a PM with the details. I think I still have a set of covers lying around if you are interested.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Here are some of the old water control valve replacements searches

http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-ev...0-j200txcdr-control-valve-removal-561310.html
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/water-control-valve-rework-results-475292.html

In each of these the part number do not show up.

I hate giving these numbers, because I do not know if they are the right ones. They are from a spread sheet when I built my motor. Do not know if I used them You will need to reconfirm them. The springs and covers are right.

Cover T-stat 333967
Gasket 329830
Spring 333858
T-stat Seat 320880
T-stat 434137

Also here is a wiring diagram



Just a quick hint. The temp sensors in the heads are a gounded system. Meaning that the positive feed is sent to the sensor and the sensor when it is activated gounds out the connection. So if you ground out the wire to the sensor it will only tell you that the horn works and the sensor is not stuck on. It does not tell you that it works. Only applying heat will make it tell you if is works.

But the steps for checking is
-Gound wrie with ignition on. Should hear buzzer under the dash. Check both sides (heads) of block.
-re hook them up and heat up the head in the sensor area with the ignition on. Buzzer shoud sound. If it does not then the sensors are bad.

Also abnother hint. Check out emay for the parts you need. This time of year is when the parts are cheap. But you need to know what part numbers you are looking for. So use Evinrude.com and Iboats for finding the part Numbers and search Ebay for the lowest cost. Warning though about ebay. Wiring does goes bad over time. Make sure you pay thru paypal. That way if the pats are bad you cen get your money back.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg E-I thought it looked odd. I will rig something to separate the two halves for my own knowledge.
JKB-thanks for the heads up on an improved method for this motor. I am interested in the covers and would like to know how long you have ran your motor with this method. Is tune up for the t'stats on a normal cycle/season? I will probably need a few more pointers on proper installation but it sounds simple enough. Now is the time to make any improvements to this motor as I may be rebuilding it in the future anyway.
I am sure that I do not have an alarm horn, I have searched everywhere under the dash. It could have been disconnected at some point. As I stated previously (#57) when I turned the key "on" and touched the temp sensor wire to the head, it sparked only and no horn. Would this mean I have a ground circuit issue with the alarm horn system?

Thanks

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

When you touched the tan wire to the engine block to simulate an overheat condition you shorted 12vdc directly to ground hence the spark. I am making the assumption that the blue wire has +12 VDC on it. That is why you need to have a horn, test light, or some type of load between the blue and tan wire.You need to tell me what you measured on the blue wire to ground with the switch on and off.
The way they had it wired without the horn in the circuit wouldn't cause a problem until one of the sensors alarmed and provided a ground path, shorting +12 VDC to ground.

There are a couple other mods you can do when you have the engine apart.

Crankcase vent modification ( shown in JK's rebuild thread)
Upper crankshaft bearing oiling modification
Credit to Faztbullet for those tips
We can get to those later. You have enough on your plate right now.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

It does not mean you have a grounded circuit issue. It means it is working right! Basically if you think about the flow of electricity. You have a wire coming from the battery (+) hot to the switch. Then from the switch (ign) to horn, then from the horn to the sensor, and then finally to ground (-). All the wires from the switch (ign) to the sensor should be hot (+). The sensor does not ground out until it get too hot. Then it completes the circut.

So If you got a spark at the head, then the system should be hooked up. You need to find out if you have a horn. Check the wires going from the switch (ign) or (i) and follow them to where they go. One should go to the horn. If it is hooked up to the Tan directly then the guy before you has deffeated the purpose of the horn. When the sensors heated up and grounded out then you over heat the wires as they become a resistor and melt. So did you find any melted tan wires?

Sorry, don't mean to get long winded, just trying to help.

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

There is no horn. That's the problem. Look at the pictures in post #57. It looks like they just eliminated the horn and put the two wires together. I'm surprised the wire didn't heat up when it went into engine overheat, or maybe it never did.

bird33: reread post #58. I made some corrections to it.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

My guess is the horn should go between the tan and blue wire. Those two wires have the correct type of connector to mate to the spade terminals on the OEM horn. I can't say for sure, because I don't know where the blue wire goes to. Disconnect the blue wire and see if it has 12V with the key on. Red lead from the meter to blue wire the black lead on the meter to a known good ground point. If that checks OK, for trouble shooting purposed you could use a 12V light bulb to test the overheat circuit. put it between those two female spade connectors on the tan and blue wires. ground the tan wire back at the engine and see if the light comes on.
The black wire is usually on the M terminal of the ignition switch. When the switch is off it grounds the powerpack to kill the spark.

There is no horn. That's the problem. Look at the pictures in post #57. It looks like they just eliminated the horn and put the two wires together. I'm surprised the wire didn't heat up when it went into engine overheat, or maybe it never did.

Greg E-you are correct as far as I know. Good observation. I disconnected the tan and blue, turned key to "on" and checked for spark at the head and no spark, plugged it back in and sparked. The alarm horn must have been removed prior. Now I will purchase a horn and install asap. I am also attaching a picture of the wire harness for reference. As you can see a couple of wires have been cut, yellow/orange and black/yellow. What do these wires go to typically, I will also review the wiring diagram from JKB (thanks) ? I did trace the grey and it goes to the tach (not working). When I turn the key to on, the only gauge that was working was the water temp and that sender needs replacing because it is damaged. Maybe I can get the gauges working with one of the cut wires......Thanks again for every ones help thus far.

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

The orange yellow wire should go from the key switch through the neutral safety switch in the binnacle control and back to the engine. Back at the engine it goes to the starter solenoid.
The black and yellow wire should go to the key switch. when the key is turned off it makes a connection to the black wire on the switch, (ground) which kills the spark from the power pack and shuts the engine off. Back at the engine the black and yellow wire goes to the power packs and the shift interrupt switch. In the shift interrupt switch harness is a diode that blocks the signal to the port power pack. When you shift into gear the stbd side power pack is shut down for a split second to make it easier to shift into gear. When the key switch is turned off both power packs are shut down. Someone has done some creative wiring. You need to get that all sorted out.

I looked at the wiring diagram JK posted below. Anywhere I mentioned a purple wire which is what my 1988 has just substitute blue wire for the 1987.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I would recommend to you that you cut every one of those old connectors of and redo them. While you are trying to find what is wrong that will clean up any confusion there maybe that the problem is at the switch.

I have attached a pic of the wiring harness diagram for the switch/control for this year of motor.



Hope it helps.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Thanks for replies. I have looked at the diagrams and re-read Greg E post #68 to compare notes and have a good idea of what is happening. I was wondering if I replaced the key switch, would there be a specific switch to purchase. I realize this switch could last but why not go ahead and replace, after cutting, with new connections all together, both harness and switch. Does this motor have the push to prime carbs for cold start? If so, I would like to get a switch that will accommodate all of the functions needed. Also, I do see the primer solenoid at the base but haven't checked it to see if it works. Thanks for your help.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Also, I am wanting to order the alarm horn and see that the OEM in the manual is 0389263 and some sites are saying that product is obsolete and new number is 0585992. Remember I have a different controller that shown in maunual, if that matters. Question is, which is correct if I want the horn to sound when key is turned to on just before starting? Neither? Thanks

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

The switch you want should have the push to prime function. OEM or aftermarket for for a 1987 Johnson or Evinrude is what you want. Your not going to find it at the local auto parts store. I'm sure that switch is the same for many models and years. When you push the key in you should be able to hear a click when the solenoid pulls in.

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Evinrude lists the 0389263 part as available. $83.30 I would look to see if an aftermarket part is available. That price is outrageous for what it is. I can't speak on the other part number.
OEM Ignition switch is more reasonable at $34.40 but check aftermarket price on that also.

FYI if you ever need parts for the binnacle style remote, look up 1988 200 TXCCR. For some reason it is not listed for 1987.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Appreciate the heads up on the 1988 TXCCR binnacle. I have printed it for future reference. As for the horn, I was able to find the 0389263 part $70 and the 0585992 for $50 on fleebay. The OEM key switch is $26 on another site also. Thanks again.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I horn is a horn. As long as it is marine grade you don't care who makes it. As long as it fits the old location. If you are not mounting it in the old location then just find a horn. Don;t even care if it has two wires. Mount it on the wood and mount one with the mounting pad.

Marine grade means that it does not spark causing fire/ignition source.....

Just a couple of thoughts

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Personally,id be more inclined to get a temp gauge that mounts to the head and a water pressure gauge. I check mine all the time also plug checks and looking at the pistons just about every time i take the boat out. Hows the tear down going any progress?

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

dehydrated-I am in the process of going thru different parts of motor to see what needs to be ordered. I have ordered a few parts and will be ordering the carb kits this weekend. I haven't torn the motor down yet because it is still in the slip. Also, in the process of purchasing a micrometer to check the cylinder walls. I will take off the carbs while in the slip just to rebuild them, shouldn't be too difficult. As I understand, I am not touching the "link and sink" if I take off the carbs. Correct? The motor ran well enough before some of the current issues occurred. The boat landing is less than a 1/4" mile from the slip so putting it on the trailer shouldn't be an issue. If so, I will call Boatus. :lol:

Questions for all:
1. If I am going to bore the cylinder of concern and hone the rest (hopefully other 5 check out ok), what is every ones thoughts of just going ahead and boring all of the cylinders the same? say like .30 over or what ever is needed. Increased HP?
2. Can I re-use the connecting arms if they check out ok and just buy new pistons/rings/wrist pin/bearings and such? Obviously if I go this far with rebuild, I should probably get all new parts.
3. Do the carbs need re-jetting if I oversize the pistons?

Thanks

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Carbs can be rebuilt without a problem of messing with linkage, personally i would check #5 possible bore on that but you will know when you mic it. hone the rest replace rings on those cylinders.inspect all bearings for pitting and such .Pay close attention on tear down and mark where intake bolts go some are longer some shorter.As you take pistons out note which direction they go and i take a scratch all to the side of the con rod and connecting cap mark them 1_6 on one side of them so theres no mix up there. I would not bore all it doesnt make a differance on balance,con rods inspect and reuse, no jetting changes

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Any progress?

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg E,
I am in the process of taking carbs off for carb rebuild, the OEM kits arrived this week. I still have the boat in the slip and will maybe pull it out soon. I am also looking at rebuild parts/pieces because I would like to go ahead and rebuild with new parts. I am interested in any ideas for quality parts such as pistons/rings/con-rods/bearings etc and where to purchase. Also, doing research on honing/boring shops locally. I have ordered a mic to check my cylinders and it should be here later this week. I will post results and look forward to replies. The weather hasn't been very cooperative lately but maybe I can get started on the carbs this week. Just trying to get done what I can while boats is in the slip and being a weekend warrior. Thanks again for the help (future too).