1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Any thoughts? All the cylinder walls are very smooth with no marks at all. How can I clean the head and block surface without getting junk into cylinder? Anyone haveany tricks?

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

In picture 4 you can see where the aluminum castings surrounding the cast iron sleeve is completely eaten away in one area. That block is toast.There is nothing for the head gasket to seal against.

Edit: Better pictures posted later in this thread showed that the casting was OK. The block is repairable.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg, Sorry but pictures were taken at night and may have been unclear. I have attached more photos for reference of the same middle cylinder. The picture where I'm pointing is to show there is a very small piece of piston missing. Not sure if maybe the ring broke and got wedged in exhaust or something. Maybe that is why I only have 75 psi on that cylinder, because of one ring broke. Cylinder wall picture is of the same middle piston for reference. Would it hurt if I were to spray small amount of Seafoam on this piston to hopefully free a ring possibly? I will decarb as soon as I get head put back on. Again the reason for pulling head was to hopefully check for any major issues that could possibly have been seen. At this point I am unsure what to do next. Any suggestions?

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I am less concerned with the piston than the fact that the cast iron sleeve looks like it has is sitting below the deck height. Look at one of the good pistons The sleeve is perfectly flush with the block. Looking at you pictures the bad cylinder does not appear to be. In picture 4 of your original set of pictures is that just black oily residue or is the aluminum casting severely corroded? The newer pictures do not show that spot. You can wait for Faztbullet or Daselbee or one of the other experts to reply. They are vastly more knowledgeable that me, but I don't think you will like what they have to say. Even if the block is good you still need to tear down the engine to hone the cylinder and replace the ring and the piston.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

That pistons toast as ring is broke or locating pin came out. Also could be detonation damage as detonation always precedes pre-ignition. Either of these can cause the aluminum to melt away, either beneath the spark plug or heat retention areas such as the ring locating pin.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Thanks guys for input. Now is the big question. If I were to tear down, what else should I replace or repair while inside? Not trying to spend alot on this motor but would like to get a couple of seasons if possible. What do you think?

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

You still haven't answered the the question regarding the condition of the block. Post #23 where you posted the three pictures. Look at the first picture. It looks like the cast iron sleeve is lower than the block casting. I don't know if I'm misinterpreting the picture or the sleeve has moved. Inspect that and report back.

If it can be rebuilt, you need to determine what parts must be replaced, and the cause of the failure, so it doesn't happen again.
You won't know that until you disassemble it and inspect all the parts. After that you need to make a decision. Either do a proper rebuild, or replace just the parts that need replacing, and hope for the best. Figure your going to spend at least $400 and your time, so you need to be willing to throw that away if your cheap rebuild doesn't work out.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Greg E, I will have a chance to inspect the sleeve this weekend. It is going to rain here tomorrow. I will try to get daytime pictures also. Thanks again for your time and knowledge. For talking purposes only, what would a proper rebuild cost? Parts needed? I don't mind investing $1,500-$2000 max. if it will last me another 3-4 years. On another hand, I may just want to "update" to a newer motor if it looks to be more than $2,000.

 

[Greg_E]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I'm just a guy like you trying to keep my old engines running. My knowledge is limited.
Rebuild kits which include all new pistons bearings and gaskets go for $1100. You would probably want to go through the carbs. Rebuild kits for those are about $30 each. Machining costs, and other items not in the rebuild kit $????. I could see you spending $2000 or more. If you didn't need to replace all the pistons you could maybe get by for less but you won't know that until you measure the cylinder bores for wear.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I don't mind rebuilding this motor if possible. I am trying to have a reliable motor because of family trips etc. Obviously a newer motor is the way to go but not looking to upgrade at this point. I will call around and see if I can maybe find a powerhead w/warranty. Anyone have a reputable manufacturers to suggest? I have seen one on Fleebay and looks to be inline with what I would spend and comes with a warranty.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I have a 1996 200 for sale right now. PM me if interested.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

daselbee, PM sent

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Your pictures do not tell the story we need here. How are each cylinder? Is there any scoring on the walls, are there any dents in the cylinder head in the combustion chamber. Let us know.

Also for clean up get yourself a large mill files and go in a firue 8 patern on the deah gasket face and the block. Always differenct direction. After you got off the all the old gasket you will see if there way a combustion leak or corrosion leak effeecting you compression.

You sould be able to freely rotate the cyclinders by rotating the fly wheel by hand if you can not. then you have some problems and further teardown my be needed. It will be a bit stiff moving the the flywheel by hand, but after it gets moving it should be easy. Should not need ore then two hands of pressure to get the crasnk and pistions moving.

Sorry anout the spelling. Don't have spell checker. Also check out my links below. I rebuilt one of these a couple of winters ago. Great motors but they do need maintence and gass. Lots of gas....

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

JKB,
I just read your entire thread on this rebuild.....wow...great job on rebuild. Very informative and helpful. Thanks to all the experts with their inputs too.
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-ev...rude-200hp-outboard-resto-rebuild-457212.html

Flywheel moves freely and cylinder walls do have grooves in the attached photos in post #23 and also #19. I will getting more photos today in the daylight to hopefully get more feedback from experts.

Thanks

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Updated Pictures for Port Side Cylinders and think I know my answer but wanted to see what everyone thinks. I think I may need to mic it first but there are some noticeable marks as shown. I don't have a MIC to measure what is visible but any thoughts are appreciated.

JKB- the heads are not dented and look to be ok from what I can tell.

Greg E-I was able to clean the top of sleeves and I will post pictures. All three port sleeves are flush with the block casting.

Can anyone tell me if the #'s on top of pistons are OEM and if so what would be a recommended replacement for rebuild. The entire rebuild kit including pistons, rings, connecting arms, bearings, seals etc is what I'm interested in purchasing, if available.

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Looks to be stock pistons the best part of your motor is it has many lives and can be bored to next size so dont sweat it simply get a factory manual,a good machinist and rebuild it.If not ill buy the motor from ya and you can buy a replacement.

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

I pulled the head on the STBD side today and took a few pictures. This side looks and feels very smooth with no marks. Sleeves are flush with block casting and pistons look to be in good shape. I talked to a friend and he suggested I just put it back together and run the mess out of it. What are your thoughts?

 

[bird33]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Also, the VRO pump wiring has broken insulation and need to know if I can used liquid tape or another product. See pictures. Does this VRO pump have an alarm horn and if so how do I test? I also want to check the alarm horn to make sure it is working properly. Do I check the light brown/tan colored wire coming out of head next to t-stat and ground it? How can I check the horn in the controller or is it located somewhere else? Thanks for all of your help. Electrical is not my thing so I may need a little more info for testing these items. I am always willing to learn. Looks like I am going to rebuild the carbs soon and any input would be appreciated.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

The frayed wire is the purple one in your harness. It is +12v only when the key is switched to ON position. So, if that frayed place contacts the block, you will blow a fuse. You need to insulate it well. The liquid neoprene is Ok to start with, but I would want something more substantial for the long run.
Notice how the harness is aged heavily, and the pump side is newer looking....someone has replaced that VRO pump in the motor's past.
The tan wire going to the head is someone's rigging. It is not factory.

If the wiring was factory, you can take any tan wire, and short it to ground with the key on. The horn in the control box up front should sound. It MIGHT be mounted externally.
There are five tan wires indicating four different faults with varied color stripes on them. They are for overheat (2, one on each head), fuel restriction (from the vacuum switch), low oil (from the oil tank), and no oil (from the VRO pump).

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1987 Johnson J200TXCUC lost power

Jeez.....look at how clean the combustion chambers are on the STBD head vs. the pics of the PORT head. He has PORT side problems and not STBD side problems?????

EDIT:
I thought at first he had a no oil or insufficient oil VRO failure because all three PORT cyls have evidence of scoring. Now that I see the STBD side....I don't think so.
I wonder if his PORT thermostat is stuck closed, and his overheat alarm doesn't work.