1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

[OldPcGuy]

Hello all, again....

I've been following the thread on the '87 Evinrude 'rebuild'... great stuff. It's actually helped me keep motivated with my own 'project'... an '87 XP200 Evinrude.

Jeff was very helpful with some questions I posted on that thread, but I'm thinking I shouldn't hijack that thread with my own questions....

I have two carb kits ready for tomorrow to get 'started' on the carbs. Today I took one off, broke it down for a look-see, and came up with some questions.

How 'dirty/gunky' is a 'problem'..?? I ask because the carb looked CLEAN. The black rubber gaskets looked 'fine'.. and the tan gaskets looked 'used' but not rotted, cracked, or stretched... just showed an 'impression' from where they 'press'. The metal parts, and 'tubes' looked clean and without resin/gunk on them.

It should be noted that the last time I 'regularly' installed carb kits was in the 70s, in cars/trucks... and the gunk/varnish/build-up was obvious and easy to see with the naked eye. As they were cleaned, it was easy to see the difference. Also, the 'worn' gaskets were 'obvious' as well... some even dissintigrated or missing..!!

With this carb, it's 98% black plastic... only the float 'moves' and everything else "looks" fine/clean. I assume there could be some build up in the jets and tubes, but from the look of the 'outside' of the brass tubes, they look CLEAN. I feel compelled to install the kits.... on principle alone. One less item to consider.

Another 'visual' makes me ask... The engine last ran about two weeks ago, and didn't run well at all... I didn't start it before removing the 1st carb today... should the carb 'bowl' have been 'full'..?? There didn't seem to be much gas in the carb when I took it off.

Should the carb have been 'full' of fuel..??? Is there a 'test' for fuel pump pressure/flow..?? Could the engine be starved for fuel..?? The filter (in line, under cowling) is clean, and for trouble shooting purposes, the engine is connected to a 6 gal tank using 3/8" hose.

A few weeks back, after installing a new power-pack (port side), new plugs, cleaning and checking wires, new gas, foot oil, water pump kit, and thermostats... it 'seemed' like one, or two cylinders might not be firing, or 'weak'.

There 'appears' to be spark all the way around... , I've got two new coils to install tomorrow, and more on the way. I'll test for spark as well. I've had coils go 'bad' before so I'll try some new ones... I almost feel compelled to put a new power-pack on the starboard side just to be 'done' with it, and know it's not THAT. Is this over-kill..??? Anyway to 'test' the powerpack...?? (other than swapping them) I'm looking at a DVA adapter online, or can build one (if I can find the parts).

While I enjoy working on engines, and generally "have the time", I've got Grandkids arriving in two weeks, and would like to have this beast running good before they arrive.

Thanks for any help..!!! (Great forum by the way...!!!)

GT

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Well I'm back. You sould like you are unsure of two major system on this motor. The electrical system and the fuel system.

Do the carbs looked all gunked upo when you rebuild them. Typically no. But it is the orfice size and fuel passages that need to be cleaned. Also the pilot hole in the trottle body plates that need cleanning. They are the first one to plug up with either dirt or yellowed gas. Make sure you check every passage for gunk. I like using a butter container of varsol and soak them for 120-15 minutes. Then scrub and blow them out with compressed air.

When going though the fuel system you need to make sure you go through everything. Especially if you are idiling rough. The recer screan on the fitting in the intake maniford deffiantely need cleaning. Also look for air leaks and fuel in cracks in this system. Make sure you can blow air in one direction on the ceck valves and both directions on the other end. Makes a huge difference when idiling.

As to the electrical system, you might want to buy a spark gap tester. They are cheap from a auto store for a single unit. 10-15 bucks. Or they have 8 cylinder units on ebay for 60 bucks. I just got mine in the mail today. With this unit you will be able to tell right off the bat if you have a problem and what cylinder it is. From there you move to DVA tester. I still need to buy one of those from ebay.......

Hope this helps.

Right now I would not touch your electrical system other than to check the grounds on everything. Get one of the spark gap tester. PM me for a link for the one on ebay if you want. Then go through the fuel system like you planned. Then re run it to see how it runns. If you still have problems determine what system it is that is giving you problems.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Sounds good...

I have a spark tester... just got it last week. I recall what seemed to me to be an 'intermittent' while running back to the ramp to pull the boat. It reminded me of a bad coil... that's what prompts me to 'try' a new coil on a couple cylinders. The spark tester may tell me more in the morning (late enough not to wake up the neighbors).

The carbs... I'll soak'em... don't have my compressor 'here'.. so, I'll either buy one, borrow one, or find a solution... maybe I can find cans of compressed air. The engine seems to idle fine... it won't throttle up. Not a CHANCE of planing the boat. Maybe 1/4 power at most. Actually, the engine idles pretty good... (!!!) though I think it idles 'fast'... and once or twice, it seemed to 'slow down' which may mean ALL the cylinders may have been firing..???

What about the fuel pump..?? Could it be 'weak'..?? Could the carb(s) (upper starboard side) be getting 'starved' for fuel..?? On the trailer, the engine sounds good, and throttles up fast... once in the water... it's bogged down.

Thanks again for the help...!!! With luck, it'll suddenly run 'fine' and I'll be wondering what it was that 'fixed' it..!!!

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

some times its easier to buy a factory manual so you know the test procedures for the electrical so far you have ordered 6 coils 25.00 each est.carb kits 15.00 ea. talking about power pack 150.00 maybe its bad maybe its good alot of parts and you still wont know the problem.you might get lucky and change out the right part. But the manual will educate you if you read it! just my .02 but the manual is priceless!!! good luck

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

No power after throttle. Sound like fuel restriction. Possible quick checks for that are in line fuel filters (one under the hood and any water separators), and that crappy anit siphon valve at tank. Might want to check those first. The second thing to check is the pulse hose fitting on the intake manifold. They some times clog up with crap. They just get flushed with carb cleaner and reinstalled.

Fuel pump rebuild kit is only a diaphram and actuator rod. Some times the sctuator rods break so Faztbullet told me. The kits are cheap 40-50 bucks I think.

Just some things to think about.

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

A manual is always a good idea... the only one I've found was an 'online' downloadable version... I'd much rather have the 'book' in front of me. Any ideas where to get one..?? Know anybody with one they'd part with..?? I look again on the net, see what I can find.

Yep, I am trying to be lucky..!! I've got two days for this project... then I'm gone a week.. then I've got 3 more days... then 3 of my Grandkids arrive and I'd REALLY like to have the boat in and running. I may have mentioned before... aside from getting the manual, trouble shooting correctly... and using GREAT resources like this forum... Rates at the shop/mechanics are pretty high. At $80+ per hour... I've not seen/heard of anyone getting billed less than 3 hours... or ~ $250. Carb kits + coils&wires are costing me about $280. Yes.. I'm shotgunning with small duck shot... hoping for the best.

My personal experience is that it's hard to find a "real" mechanic, who knows/cares how to trouble shoot 'by the book'. Most don't, and 'wing it' at the owners expense. The bill often reflects the 'testing' they used... a couple coils, some wires, etc...

The next group of mechanics suggest that it all be changed 'as a matter of course' considering the engines age. "Oh, the coils/wires/etc should be replaced so they don't present an issue soon down the road." In a small way I can sympathize with this attitude. A mechanic often does NOT want a customer having to return with a bad coil, in 10-30 days, after spending $$$ to have, say, the stator replaced. No matter what, it'll seem like the mechanic "should have known", or "Maybe it wasn't the stator"...etc... Thinking about it, I figured... If I end up taking the motor to the shop, I could say "All new coils, wires, and carb kits... it's something else".

Will that reduce my shop bill..??? Maybe.... (HA..!!!)

As you said, it's air, fuel, and spark....

My thought is, that at this point, with my engine, it's something "big" because I'm getting SO little power. Secondly, it fires RIGHT up, actually idles nicely, and 'sounds' good.

So, after some coffee... it'll be 10am and "to heck with the neighbors"... I'll fire it up and use the spark tester. Then I'll install carb kits for the cylinders I "think" are not running (weak).. if that doesn't solve it... I'll install the rest of the carb kits, and get the DVA adapter and a manual of some sorts.. and dive in.

Shame one of my children didn't become an engine mechanic..!!! (Share the misery..??!?!?!!!)

For those who luv pictures... here's a couple...

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Just want to have you check the fuel system before firing it up for restrictions. You do not want o run this on the lean side. It will destroy the motor. For the ten minutes it would take to check the anit siphon valve and filters, it's like insurance.

Hey does the primer bulb go flat whne running at high speeds? This is a sign of fuel line restrictions.

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Nope. I've had that happen in the past... early season up north, March.. put the boat in and at full throttle, it would start to 'slow down'... finally notice the primer bulb FLAT..!!! The 'external' filter/water seperator was clogged... hadn't changed it yet. It was fine at all speeds up to WOT...

On this motor, we checked the filters (the only one now is the one ON the motor) two weeks ago before firing it up. They were clean. Before I installed the port side power-pack, that whole side wasn't 'running' (not firing)... the plugs were 'wet' and 'seemed' to be getting plenty of fuel. I opened the 'drain' plug/screw on one of the carbs (middle, port side) and maybe 1/4 cup of fuel came out, so it appeared that the fuel pump was working. Once power-pack was installed I 'thought' I was home free...

Not sure where an "anti syphon valve" is, nor how to inspect/check it for performance. I'll check the parts schematic for it's location. Also, I'm checking into a fuel pump kit.... Looks like the starter has to come off to get the fuel pump off. The fuel pump appears stock, and the oil injector system was 'un-hooked' LONG ago. Run's on premix. Don't know if there is a 'fix/mod' to the fuel system regarding this issue.

Did I check ALL the carbs..?? No, but visually there was plenty of gas. A 'trick' that may or may not be 'good'... I put my hand over the intake port of the carb(s) VERY briefly, (1/4 second??) to get maximum vacuum from the cylinder... to see if fuel was getting drawn... and yes, there was. Not very 'scientific', but...

One thought, could the motor be getting enough fuel to idle and rev briefly (not in gear), but NOT be getting enough fuel to get full power under load...(??) I'm tempted to unhook the fuel line, crank the engine and see if there is any pressure..??

I'm off to the store to get some Varsol and some tiny brushes....

Thank you sir for all your help and advice..!!!!

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Didn't find a part number for fuel pump 'kit' on the schematic... any ideas..?? Now I GOTTA get moving...!!!

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Ok the fuel pump kit number can be looked up here http://www.maxrules.com/fixomcvro.html. I took the number and searched ebay and found one. #'s 0436095, 0435921



The anit siphon valve is the fitting (Hose barb) that the fuel line is connected to at the tank. Just un screw the "brass" fitting and replace with one that does not have the valve in it.

I am pointing to the idle orfices in the throttle plate. You will want to check these if you are cleaning things. They are on the other side of the throttle flaps.



And again check all the screens in the recirc system. They affect idiling.

As to the carbs if you are not going to rebuild them all then you might want to drain the fuel out of them and see what comes out. If any grit comes out make sure to dissassemble it.

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

if you pull the main screw also pull the main jet and run a wire and carb cleaner and blow dry use a tooth pick and stick it in the orrfice works as a tool once you unscrew the jet also makes it easier putting the jet back in blind hole

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Well... I just got word... confirmed on a flight tomorrow at "O-dark-hundred". Be gone about a week... project on hold...

Thanks again for the help... I'll be back at it end of next week...

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Well... here I am... back from the high country of the Wasatch...

I cleaned all carbs with carb cleaner.... put boat in water... used QUICKSILVER "tune-up-in-a-can"... and found significant improvement. But not 100%... I checked for spark with spark tester, and there "is" spark, but....

Motor not making 100% power in a 'hole shot'... and I'm getting 'intermittent" power 'jolts'... like a light-switch "off/on/off" to the 'power'... This seems like problems I've had in the past involving a bad coil(s). I've got two new coils to swap in, one cylinder at a time for testing.

Questions.... I noticed using the spark tester that it was 'winking out' occasionally... at all rpms. Is this just a quirk of the tester, or am I seeing electrical (spark) 'drop out'..?? Does this indicate particular problems..??

At least the boat is in the water, and I can take my Grandsons on 'test rides'... and have them 'work' on the boat while I work on the motor... "Hey, swab them decks..!! Run the bilge pump..!! Check the crab trap..!! Go get us some ice water..!!"

 

[Auxlarry]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

I had a similar problem with my 115 hp and went through the fuel system, etc. and finally started checking electrical components and found a bad power pack. Went to the CDI site and diagnosed the problem.
Good luck and I hope you find your problem.

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Thanks for the ideas... I've already replaced ONE power pack.... if needed I'll replace the other... I'm looking for a manual to help run down the trouble shooting for the electrical system. As in... the stator, etc...

I'll take another look at the CDI site... it's the maker of the new power pack I installed...

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Hello all,

Found the 'problem'... or the BIG problem at least. Most everyone here was on it, and your advice made a HUGE difference in how I handled the trouble shooting... and finding the problem. I can't thank everyone enough. This is a GREAT forum..!!!

As always, with most 'solutions'... it was 'right in front of me... and I missed it. I can come up with an excuse, but it's weak.... Simply, I should've been more thorough and diligent. I ordered 4 carb kits off ebay (good price) and bought two locally (not so good price). The 4 from Ebay have become "lost in the mail"... forwarded off to who-knows-where. USPS is trying to find them.

So I installed the two kits, starting from the top, and cleaned the heck out of the other four... but, didn't remove the floats on the last three, just sprayed cleaner everywhere...!!! Of course by the time I got to the LAST carb, I was thinking I was already done. Typical bad thinking.... and wasn't 'looking' closely. Not paying attention.

I distinctly remember shooting carb cleaner everywhere, every port/hole/jet/etc , flipping it onto it's side, spraying, repeat... re-assembling it and putting it back on the motor. It was THAT last carb that had the float that was screwed up. I also remember that I didn't drop, press, lean on, or otherwise 'bend' the float while cleaning it. All I can think is... someone before me did.

I'm looking through my records to see who may have put carb kits in it... I remember having it 'looked over', minor tune up, about 15 yrs ago, when I thought I'd be using it. A friend took it to a mechanic and organized the work... I simply paid the bill. I was traveling and out of town. Eventually came back, but never used it... just winterized it for long term storage again.

Tomorrow, I'll pull all the carbs AGAIN... and scrutinize them, especially the floats. Then, might as well get some tubing and replace the air lines..?? Get a new seal for the 'control valve ' (water) since it leaks... and look into getting the idle smoothed out (if possible). It always 'shook' a little.. but... any ideas about that are greatly appreciated. I'll start another thread for suggestions on what to 'do' about idle issues...

THANKS, again, for so much help from everyone..!!!!

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

For ideling check for air leaks on fuel system hoses (all of them, including primer and recirc system), clogged recirc lines, fittings and screeens. Normally this is it after carbs are rebuilt. All jetting is fixed on these carbs so if they are perfect then it most likely these issues. Also have you confirmed the timing?

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Roger on the air leaks in fuel and recirc systems... I'll go through them as soon as the rest of the carb kits go in... and the Grandkids leave. Not sure how to 'confirm' the timing'. I used to use (still have 4-5) timing lights on my cars/trucks so I know how they "work". But, I've never used one on an outboard. I see some 'timing' marks on flywheel... is it as simple as using cylinder one, and shining the light on the flywheel..?? If yes.. how does one 'change' the timing..?? (I seem to recall it's in the linkage..???)

Thanks for the help..

 

[dehydrated]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

good idea to index the flywheel find top dead center on each cylinder your flywheel has 120 teeth on it each tooth is 5 degrees in timing so count back from that mark 18 degrees which should be between the 4th and 5th tooth and make a mark on the flywheel for each cylinder then hook timing light on each cylinder and see where your at if your using the joe reeves method you would make your mark at 14 degrees hope this helps

 

[OldPcGuy]

Re: 1987 Evinrude XP200 - major tune up (??)

Now THAT sounds interesting. Long ago I had a tool that indicated TDC from the plug hole. Haven't see it in decades... I'll have to try and find another.

The "Joe Reeves Method"... ?? I'll research that... Thanks.!!

And.. how does one 'adjust' the timing..??

Thanks for the advice..!!!