1985 Bayline Capri Cuddy rebuild, The boat that just keeps on giving..

ondarvr

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Some of the stuff you've read either isn't accurate, or may be difficult to understand out of context.

​A glass laminate doesn't wick water "badly", although water can wick down the fibers, it takes a while, and is more associated with low cost resins and sloppy lamination techniques, plus even if it does wick water, the amount is very small and it's a slow process. people frequently blame the laminate, but when the glass and/or a layer of resin, is so thin it doesn't even form a barrier, it has no chance for success right from the start.

​If you actually put a continuous laminate more than 1/16 of an inch thick over the wood, water wicking into the wood and causing rot shouldn't be an issue. The typical laminate over a stringer should be around 3/16" or more, the 1/16" comment was because many boats were made with even less material over the wood than that, and then they blame the resin for the failure.

​Gel coat is not a water barrier, water will migrate through it also, again, not quickly or a lot, but it will, it will not help to pre-coat a piece of wood with gel coat. Resin coating is required before glassing over wood, but is rarely done in production, which creates issues in the years to come.

​Fir plywood is better than pine, the individual ply count isn't much of a concern when the wood is being glassed over, you aren't relying nearly as much on the plywood for strength as you would be if you were building a wooden boat.
 

TheAbyss

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Apr 26, 2017
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And this is why I like to ask questions that may have already been gone over, i never like reading something and understanding it wrong and then go about doing something that will turn out like junk :) I greatly appreciate the info.

With all things being = I went to the hardware store and had picked up some Fir G1S but gee it looked like G2S, upon looking at the acutal lamination it looked like the press was seriously drunk as out of 7 plys I couldn't count one layer that was straight or continuous from one end to the other, looked like a bunch of pieces stacked randomly like a cluster f. As it turned out it was ACX. (NOT the auracoPly brand, they have that at the other store and the lam's look perfect) So to the return desk it went. Gotta go to the big orange devil and pick some up tomorrow and find me some Fir. Its the same price as the ACX around here.

When I go to put this boat back together I will 100% glass both sides of everything. My track record is one that once I buy anything I rarely if ever sell it regardless if I use it much but provided I have a spot for it. (kinds explains the collection of stuff here)

And you are so very correct in the production boats Well this 85 bay liner for sure... The stringers were glassed one side only and the other side was only 2 inch up the side out of 6.5... The underside had 0 glass and the entire center of the deck had 0 glass only from the hull to about 5 inch in on the deck was glassed and super thin at best.. (funny enuff the non glassed parts of the deck were the only ones that weren't rotten) Even the transom skin nearing the top was 1/16 at best in most places.

For what it's worth I'm going to use fir and lam 2 3/4 pieces together for my stringers and I am right now in the process of building my Vac Chamber out of a large O2 cyl, Would this make at all sense to give a go, soaking the stringers in resin then put it in the vac chamber there by pulling the resin into the wood a ton more than just coating it on there? I can heat the Cyl and that should cure the resin and the vaccum would make it not tacky with no need to sand because no waxed resin..
Sound crazy but if it would benefit the wood I wouldn't mind trying it..

I am building this Vac Chamber to Vac dry the Wood way way down in moisture content. Water boils at around 86f at -28.67 inhg so @ -28 inhg and heating the chamber up to say 130 it should dry out way way more with out warping.
 

TheAbyss

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Well, some time has gone by, but i now have the stringers, bulkhead, transom all cut up and fitted in there ready for glass.

My next head scratching task is to figure out much fiberglass to order.. Is there any method or specific technique in measuring out for the glass needed? I measured up all the stringers and bulkheads and such so do i just do some basic SQ IN calculations and giver.

Also going to buy 10 Gallon of Resin, from what i read this should be enuff. Need to rebuild all the seat boxes and such but they will be tabbed into place the first 8 or so inch then well protected via enamel or similar wood treatment (unless the budget allows for a bunch more csm then they too will be 360 glassed..

For the stringers buy 18oz roving, cut to 4" ;tab it, then 6" ,tab it and finally cloth and CSM the crap outta everything else for waterproofing. I'm going to buy enuff CSM to give everything a 360 coat of csm and resin as to hopefully prolong this boats life span the second time around.
 

TheAbyss

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would that not be considered the 1708 biax or similar?
As i am looking through the pile of guts that came out of the boat a month ago, it seems from factory the tabbing and entire method of the factory stringer install complete with the bulkhead and deck was all CSM, there is no other detectable weaving in the layers other than csm ,

The only other different glass in the boat is in the hull where i had to grind out the csm down to the roving to get to solid material.

So with the factory job being ultra sub standard but not having busted in half, I would imagine I can do csm-18oz roving-csm-roving and that would be good for the stringers and bulkheads. Cover bottom side of the deck with 1oz csm and use the 1.5oz csm to stick the deck to the hull and some 2oz cloth to coat the deck from port to starboard to make it nice and smooth and a bit more strength? (Using 5/8 exterior spruce for the deck and the stringers and bulkheads are 3/4 DougFir)
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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When it hasn't failed, most of the time you just need to rebuild it the same way it was done to begin with, adding roving or 1708 will be a bonus, and either will work.

​Cloth doesn't help much on strength, but may give you a smoother surface if that's what you want, the cost is high though.

​To calculate the amount of resin and glass, measure the areas than need to be glassed, then add up the weight per square foot of each layer of the fabric you plan to use, you will need about 2 lbs of resin for every 1 lb of CSM, it will be about 1-1 for roving.
 

TheAbyss

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WoodonGlass, I went through and book marked your link thanks very much for pointing it out :)


well, all the fiberglass and the isophathalic resin will be in on monday, (was able to pick it up same price as polyester) then is time to play talked with the owner of the fiberglass place and he explained it to me such that the roving will allow some flex and that in a round about way the 1708 is like concrete and the roving is more like (but not really) like rubber strong but some flex.

In the mean time I want to fill the old screw holes holes in the transom . Is it better to just let the resin squish out of the holes when I bond the transom, or is it better to use epoxy? If better to use epoxy, would loctite #1324007 5 min epoxy do the job? I have a wack of this and before it expires i'd like to put it to use. No it's not marine but once it's cured isn't it "cured" and not going anywhere?
 

ondarvr

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Don't bother filling the screw holes, it'll just be extra unneeded work. put some tape over the holes when you bond in the plywood.
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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If you haven't purchased the roving yet, buy 24oz instead of 18oz, and you would only need one layer of it on the stringers.
 
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