1985 Bayline Capri Cuddy rebuild, The boat that just keeps on giving..

[TheAbyss]

I know this has probably been covered somewhere, but maybe this a different situation?. I completed well "thought" i completed the ceremonial grinding of the boat. Only to discover that where the stringers were glassed in, it looks like when the boat was built they built up the hull to the point of the real coarse woven roving then let it cure and then glassed the stringers in.

As a side note, the roving that is directly under the stringers looked like the stringers were only placed in and glassed up one side as the roving is only a bit dirty no actual bonding taken place

On the one side of the stringer's original location the glass where it sits on the hull, i can get a screw driver and pry up pieces of the glass like a sticker(it peels up towards the center of the boat), the other side seems good, so is this a case of just grind out a wack more, down to the roving "or" where it is actually stuck to the other half of the hull, and call it done ? or cut the boat in half and call it even more done

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[Scott Danforth]

Bayliner build quality of the mid-80s was a bit to be desired

Post pics

You have gone this far, i say peel up the shoddy work, fire up the 24 grit wheel and finish grinding

 

[TheAbyss]

After looking in the light, might be that I need to grind out this jazz and then it's ready?
Just trying to upload pic's says not Authorized, Probably the 3 posts rule

 

[TheAbyss]

Ok, here goes, put this up on photobucket, maybe it'll work now. I took a better look in the light (was grinding at 10pm lastnight with a trouble light), Would seem that this is just a secondary bond type idea.?

 

[TheAbyss]

So if I am seeing this all properly, the glass that isnt quite stuck to the rest of the hull seems to be build up to the stringer that needs to be ground out either way, I had hoped to leave a tiny trench in there to act as a guide.

The build quality is much to be dreaded so far in this particular boat, the stringers were glassed about 1/8 thick on the one side up just over the top and on the other side the glass came up maybe 2 inches out of 6 onto the stringer leaving most of the stringer exposed and as you can ready guess quite rotten.

As I am on a mission to get this boat in the water this summer while not breaking the bank beyond repair I will be using Poly resin and will end up glassing the stringers from left to right and everywhere in between for some extra sticking power.
Heck it cant be worse than factory....
I know Epoxy is king but here in my part of Canada (leamington,Ont) it is also near 600$ a for a 5 gallon kit where as poly is 175$ so it would be insane to do this all up in epoxy.

 

[gsxrdan]

I love the smell of fresh ground glass in the morning!! esp when someone else is doing the grinding lol! my wellcraft also had lots of badly bonded chop around the stringers and bulkheads, not integral to the hull at all. Poly all the way!

 

[TheAbyss]

in the last picture you can see how i have pulled the stringer but left the fiberglass on the inside, I figure this will leave substantial strength to that area, All i have to do is Bond a new stringer to the hull and the fiberglass piece and then glass over the stringer to the top and then down the other side there by bonding it all to the hull and using the existing fiberglass as added strength. Is this a wise idea or should I cut it down by half, leave it as is? I like Overkill, everything I do always ends up in super overkill mode this way i know it aint gonna break. From what I gather from many forums,posts,ideas, PL Prem Construction Adhesive (my favorite thing for many different tasks) is a very good way to bed the stringers and bulkheads to the hull fillet it then glass over top once it cures. is this the general consensus? wood to fiberglass = PL Prem is an accepted method.

 

[gsxrdan]

i say grind it all away, easier to do the fillets without old mess in your way, and theres no extra strength leaving it there. i didnt bother with pl, just bed everything with the pb ur going to mix for filleting anyway - pl takes 3 days to cure fully before u can glass over it. also do the 'bonding' in 3 steps, first 'tab' the stringer in place with strips of glass, then glass up to the top of the stringer and down over the tabbing - on both sides, lastly 'cap' the stringer... theres a great write up with pics in the 'sticky' section, number 18 in the 'how to's' post.

 

[sheboyganjohn]

Grind it all out. It is going to be a chore to glass the stringers to the old engine bay sides. I personally am a PL guy. I would rather go through $12 in PL then $50 in resin but to each their own. Stingers need to go back in so everything you plan on putting back in will fit. If they are off a tad one way or another it should not hurt anything. If you are worried get the far ends ground out first. Put a mark for the center of the stringers on each end then grind the rest. Use a straight edge (or batten if it was a curved line) and draw the line back in for reference.
As for the bad spots, grind those out, but don't worry about grinding everything dead flat. I would personally rather fill in a few low spots (or feather them out and leave them) then spend days grinding away good glass to get it flat.

 

[TheAbyss]

A grinding I will go... will post more pics as i progress. I'm gonna get in there and see just how much will "peel " outta the area then grind the area to suit. I've also read the various primers on how much to grind for tabs and proper adhesion, so i decided that 6 inch to the outside of the stringers then the entire center area between the stringers should be plenty bonding power for polyester (i hope).
This boat will be in the family from now till my kids no longer want it when they are grown, so it's gotta last, but I am the type that will spend more time on maintenance than actually using any given item but maintenance is just fun for me (crazy as it seems). I will also endeavor to put at least one layer of chop and resin on the underside of the deck to waterproof the ply. Oddly enuff this boat was never fully glassed and all the places where the deck and bulkheads weren't glassed the wood was also solid mind you there was no factory foam in this boat either. This begs the question Foam or not to Foam, With the new closed cell foams the soaked foam is no longer issues? I will also glass in drain holes in each compartment to the next as the factory ones were done with 4 in pieces of 3/4" pvc extending way into each cavity making the water impossible to fully drain in each compartment...

 

[ondarvr]

It will make no difference what you use to bed the stringers, it's just something to space the plywood off the hull.

​There is no such thing as "new closed cell foam", it has been closed cell ever since it was put in the very first boat, the only change over the years was to meet emission regulations.

​Even though you say it will be in the family forever, boats tend to be moved on to the next owner or the dump sooner than expected, they rarely survive and get passed down to the next generation.

​How ever you choose to build it it far outlast your desire to own and use it, so don't stress too much over the details.

 

[TheAbyss]

I know this is gonna shake a nest of some sort, and i do indeed know is has been covered relentlessly everywhere but one can never learn too much,, Foam or No foam, My pardons on the "New closed cell foam" comment, i miss read some posts in other areas. I did read however that one fellow had a idea of putting the foam in large bags there by "hopefully" preventing water logging. This poses interesting to me but Foam apart from the flotation aspect would render the strengthening effect of foam non existent, as it would prevent the foam from bonding to the hull and deck etc, in a bag would make it along for the ride and flotation?

I would imagine that this ol bayliner would benefit from the structural aspect of foam to lessen it's what I can only assume would have been a wet noodle in the water.
but being the thing never did have any foam in it in the first place would the foam make it or break it?

With the bedding the stringers, spacing them off the hull, the term i've read everywhere, is this meant to say they need to be "floating" or that the gap needs to be perfect as to prevent any hard spots. With the PL or PB or epoxy or pieces of marble cheese only there to perfectly distribute the load across the 1 3/4 of width of the stringer


As for the transom it was factory done like so ((\\\||||||\\\)) being 1/2.3/4.1&1/2.3/4.1/2 all separate pieces. and notched around the stringer at the bottom rather than the stringers up to the transom plate. My plan is the whole back in 3/4 and the 1&1/2 in the center, it is a 3 angle transom so the outer most piece will have to be separate. The stringers will be such that they are up against the transom plywood (factory was straight to the outer fiberglass skin) Would this not serve to better transfer the force across the width of the transom ? (edit) When adhering the plywood to the transom I've read good things about PL Prem inbetween the transom and the wood. Is this good idea or more so resin. Anyone have any longer term experience with the bond between PL Prem and fiberglass?

I hope my kids will enjoy this boat for some years, With out getting into it any further than anyone would care to read, A genetic disease had me in it's sites 10 years back and continues to kick me in my ***** on a daily basis. So for what it's worth they better enjoy it

 

[ondarvr]

The idea is keep the wood off the hull so it doesn't create a hard spot, which may cause a visible warp in that spot, or maybe a crack, it's more common on larger more expensive boats.

99% of the small boat builders don't bed the stringers in anything, they don't space them off the hull either, they just toss the stringer grid in and glass over it, bedding or spacing them off the hull is a better practice, but not often done except by a DIY rebuilder. So your method, no matter what it is, will be better than when it was new. The common products used to bed a stinger don't provide any extra strength, the laminate and plywood provide all of it. Putty is weak and brittle, so it will fail quickly if stressed, PL and similar adhesives are flexible, and are far more flexible than the plywood or glass laminate in the stringer, so for the adhesive to start seeing any stress the laminate has already failed, and the laminate would typically be much stronger than the adhesive, so the adhesive isn't going to hold up either.

​You didn't mention the length of the boat, but it must be over 20' or it would've had foam in it. If there was no foam, then structurally it doesn't need it, so putting foam in it is up to you. Putting it in very heavy duty plastic bags helps, so does leaving large spaces in the stringers (limber holes) for water to drain to where it can be removed.

​The transom might be much stronger if done in a different way than stock, but stock didn't fail, so anything you do to strengthen it further is to make you feel better, it won't last longer. I'm not saying that's bad, it's just your choice, there is no downside.

 

[TheAbyss]

Ok, so i finally see the light as it were. This is a 21 foot boat so just over the need for foam, and if I don't need it then even better will save me another 500+$ in Canada at least.... The limber hole in this boat were of a design that I cannot see any method to its creation. There was one in every cavity but was created with 3/4"PVC pipe extending 2 inches in and out of the cavities thus requiring the water to pool in each cavity deep enuff to find its way into the pipe and never allowing it to fully drain, my plan is to place flush Half holes from the surface up say a 1.5" in the logical sane places then glass the exposed wood on the inside of the hole further waterproofing the hole..

For the transom, you are quite right It didn't fail there were no cracks or any visible stress to the inner or outer skins, the wood however, a used kitchen sponge would have been a lot more dry. The bottom where the transom met the hull, was never glassed, and with the limber holes completely crazy (imho) only allowed water to sit in the rear cavities and promptly saturate the transom.

To clarify one thing for my self, the Plywood in the transom, it's function is to make the whole assembly more rigid with the glass providing the strength? so the process in applying the new wood to the transom would be best to use resin to make the bond? or does it matter, eg PL adhesive?

I am the local Macguyver around here, and as such I have all sorts of unusual tools and such, I happen to have a vaccum chamber that can take a 6foot piece of lumber, would it be wise to infuse the stringers and what ever else i can fit in there with a water proofing solution? if so any recomendations, kinda like diy pressure treating in reverse but with resin friendly solutions.


After all is said and done, with Our gas prices being what they are, if this boat sees water 5 times a season then it'll be grand, and cost about that too. Currently our gas is sitting at 1.07/L or 4.28.Gal..

 

[ondarvr]

I just typed a long response...and it disappeared....not sure what I did.

 

[TheAbyss]

that happened to me today as well, what amounts to a short story, zapppp, gone... profanities ensued, and typed an abbreviated version . maybe something up with the site?

 

[ondarvr]

Half circle cut outs strategically placed at the bottom of each stringer will allow water to find it's way out, glass these to seal the wood and you'll be fine.

​On Bayliners you can find many odd ways to glass the inside of the hull where things are hidden out of sight, it's why they got the reputation they have, frequently the design was good, but the build quality was lacking.

​Use a layer or two of CSM to bond the plywood onto the existing transom, it works well.

​Don't try make your own PT plywood, most of the sealers aren't compatible with polyester resin. You can buy KD PT plywood for marine use, but it may be hard to find. Normal PT ply can be used, but it needs to be dried out, then it warps, plus it tends to be low quality wood to start with.

​Attention to detail is what will make it last longer, if done better than when it first built (which isn't hard) it will last another 30+ years.

 

[TheAbyss]

Well after lastnight and 3 hours of grinding with the good ol 7" grinder and 3/4 full 5gal pail of fiberglass dust that stuck around I should only have another 3 hours of grinding..

Glad i did as suggested and cut all the flanges out of the bilge area that i had left as everywhere the glass was laid up to the stringers was very poorly wetted out as you could see sections of CSM that looked like it was dry.

Couldn't get into the boat today to grind so I fired up the laser and did this, The shift cover on the outdrive. Me and wife run a homebased vinyl decal/sticker and laser cutting/etching shop, if this boat will be anything it will be covered in vinyl stickers and customized with laser etched stuff


As a fourm based question, anyone else have the pesky issue when uploading an image the system complaning that the image is curroupt even though it opens in every piece of software have. I convert them down to 1920x1080 from the phones 18mp size and that cuts them from the 4mb+- to 200kb+- and still "your image is courpted"

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-uoN-zd8J9pQTNoQk5VM2Jrb0U

 

[sheboyganjohn]

I just opened a photobucket account and put all my pictures for the forum there and just paste the link in. I have over 300 pictures in a free account and still have not even used 1/4 of the space they give you.

 

[TheAbyss]

Here are the pictures, not too sure if the GDrive images worked out.