1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

I thought you said you cleaned the carbs? Choking with a rag allows it to start?

Brings me back to the "no gas at idle" diagnosis.

Also, the reason I asked about the primer bulb: I was thinking you might have had the floats in upside down. This would flood the engine and the primer bulb would never get firm.

Primer bulb firms up nicely with about 4-5 squeezes

 

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Could this be a fuel pump issue? Where it just isn't pumping the fuel into the carbs? Thats why choking it with the rag starts it, since it kind of suctions it into the carbs?

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

How is it possible that the fuel system is GREAT & the ignition system is great for a hour of WOT ?????

Can you start the engine at 1/4 throttle ? 1/2 ? 3/4 ?

Friend bought a used beatup boat just like that condition. Good mechanic had no luck on the 100hp Merc.

I said lets check the gasoline that came with this boat.............Water in all the tanks, lines, bulb, fuel pump, hoses to carbs & in the carb bowls.


We pulled apart & hung on a tree branch EVERYTHING to drain & dry. CAREFULLY DRAINED fuel pump & flushed with new gas. Drained & fushed carbs 2 x.

Bingo. It barks instantly to life at 1/8 open..............Then back to the water for a proper speed & mixture adjustment.

 

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

How is it possible that the fuel system is GREAT & the ignition system is great for a hour of WOT ?????

Can you start the engine at 1/4 throttle ? 1/2 ? 3/4 ?

Friend bought a used beatup boat just like that condition. Good mechanic had no luck on the 100hp Merc.

I said lets check the gasoline that came with this boat.............Water in all the tanks, lines, bulb, fuel pump, hoses to carbs & in the carb bowls.


We pulled apart & hung on a tree branch EVERYTHING to drain & dry. CAREFULLY DRAINED fuel pump & flushed with new gas. Drained & fushed carbs 2 x.

Bingo. It barks instantly to life at 1/8 open..............Then back to the water for a proper speed & mixture adjustment.

I can't start the engine at all....unless I choke the carbs with the rag, and even then it takes a little while, but you can at least hear it trying to start that way.

I have tried hooking up a portable gas tank with fresh gas and that didn't help either.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

It will not help because of the water in every part of the fuel system.

His boat was the same spit and fart cranking. 3 carb bowls with water. i do a quick test now for bad gasoline. I have a trigger squeeze oil can. ONLY to be used with gasoline.
Squirt into each carb. REMOVED & REPLACED with new plugs in each cylinder. BRAPPP. Says it all.

Your plugs take forever to evaporate water.

 

[archcycle]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Well now it has new floats, float pin, needle, and needle seat so it should be perfect now

It's actually the exact opposite. Every time you remove one and put it back in it has to be checked and adjusted, especially if it's new and was never adjusted for your setup to begin with. They come perfectly straight but generally need to be bent up a few degrees to clear the lip of the float bowl.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

fuel pump?

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

I just reread that it ran fine then bellied up on idle.

Back to bad fuel stirred up & pumped to the carbs.

 

[Proselect]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Just currious if you ever checked your floats by blowing in the fuel intake tubes? Carbs empty of gas, blow in the tube with the carb right side up. You should be able to blow through it. Now flip it upside down, you should not be able to blow through it.
I am assuming this isn't the problem anyway due to the fact if you choke it with a rag it starts(or tries to).

Before anybody goes any farther, have you done a link and sync at all on this motor.......ever? You have had the carbs off so many times. You can't just take them off and throw them back on without re-adjusting them. Trust me, I learned that the hard way last year and invested in service manual. All I did was clean my carbs and put the carbs back on and it spit and sputtered and didn't want to idle. Also, if your carb butterflies are not completely closed tight, they will not draw the fuel through the idle circuit. That can cause a poor starting condition as well. I would make extra sure ALL passages are clean, floats are adjusted, link and sync the carbs, and go from there. I have a feeling its an adjustment problem.

 

[wired247]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Somebody really doesn't want to talk about float adjustment.

 

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Somebody really doesn't want to talk about float adjustment.

Its got brand new floats pins needles, and everything. So even if they werent adjusted 100% correct they wouldnt be so far off as to cause the engine to not even attempt to start.

Thats a quote fron the marine mechanic I called yesterday trying to get ANY idea as to whats going on

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

S M

Please send me a PM when you get the idle circuit working. All the cylinders cannot fire. ALL THE CARBS WITH THE SAME LOW SPEED PROBLEM ????????????????????

How can you screw all of them up so badly the same way. Not likely. At least a couple of cylinders should be firing all the time.

Throttle valves in all the carbs closed TOO MUCH ? possible.
Move to 1/4 throttle & try it. LOOK INTO the carbs to make sure the plates are ACTUALLY OPENING. Then try the rags. Faster starts ?

Comes back to bad gasoline in everything or a linkage / mixture screws too lean on ALL the carbs. 1/4 turn is the difference of firing or not at all.

Slime WILL plug the idle jets instantly. It is not that easy to get it out in some carbs jets.

All cabs running lean ?????????? only at idle??????????
Hammer away at linkage & idle adjustments. Still no easy starts ?

Does anybody know if he has removable IDLE JETS in his carburator ?
If yes. Remove them & run a SINGLE strand of Copper wire thru the full length. If you try to BLOW out the slime.......MAKE SURE you have a BIG WHITE rag / towel in the bottom of a good sized cardboard box. Blow down only at the rag. Air pressure CAN & WILL blow a jet out of your fingers. Done that 1 time. Spent a good 1/2 hour moving EVERYTHING to find the BENT jet. CAREFULL.

You realize that the rags are acting like a old fashioned choke valve & sucking fuel thru the main jets of the carburator ?

Back to jets clogged in all the carburators. or watery gasoline.
Smell the gasoline after cranking with the rags. Does it smell like fresh gas from a gas station hose. Be super critical of the differences.

Get lucky

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Road trip. Two hrs. up. Two hrs back. Guaranteed.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Not sure if this will post up.

Nope. Article describing water in fuel symptoms.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

If you can richen it up with a rag, richen it up with the primer system, and (don't know if you have tried this) richen it up by squirting pre-mix in the carbs....but it still won't start.....AND you have good spark.....then:

You likely have a sheared flywheel key, or some other fault that is throwing the ignition timing way off. To verify, check timing at cranking speed. Even at cranking speed, the timing light should show #1 firing at or around TDC. If necessary, index the flywheel and check all cylinders.

 

[wired247]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Its got brand new floats pins needles, and everything. So even if they werent adjusted 100% correct they wouldnt be so far off as to cause the engine to not even attempt to start.

Thats a quote fron the marine mechanic I called yesterday trying to get ANY idea as to whats going on

Yes. Yes it would. Brand new means nothing. If they arent adjusted properly it will run like crap and flood the emulsion tube so bad that it won't start or run. Guaranteed. Been there. The floats are not adjusted out of the box. YOU have to do that when you install them.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

SM

Do you have, & are you fully recharging the starting battery ? If you let it get too tired, the starter wants to keep kicking out of cranking. You mentioned that in your first post.

At this point, taking the boat to a good outboard mechanic seems in order.

 

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

SM

Do you have, & are you fully recharging the starting battery ? If you let it get too tired, the starter wants to keep kicking out of cranking. You mentioned that in your first post.

At this point, taking the boat to a good outboard mechanic seems in order.

Yes battery is fully charged

 

[S M McInto]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

I am back to the "bad gas" conclusion again. Tried to run a hose into the gas tank to siphon some out to check it...couldn't get the hose to go all the way in, but when I pulled it out, the hose was green...not a good sign.

So I hooked up the portable tank to it, choked it with a rag, started it, let it run for about 15 minutes at all different RPM's. Shut it off. Let it sit about a half hour, and it started right back up. Let it sit about an hour, cranked a little (when it didn't start right away I though...oooo crap) but it did start and ran pretty good again for about 10 minutes.

I am going to water test it tomorrow hooked up to the external tank and see if the issue has been solved, hopefully all I will have to do is some minor adjustments to get everything straightened out after taking the carbs off so many times.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: 1982 Johnson 115hp V4 Starting issues

Way to go S M !

If you feel pretty sure it is / could be crappy gasoline. Common as hell in older used boats. Makes no difference if Alaska, wisconsin, West Virgina, Florida or living on the Equator. ANY tank above ground CAN & WILL expand & contract the gas fumes in a tank on days & nights with moisture & quick temperature changes.

A boat with a tank exposed to rain is even more likely to suck in water. ESPECIALLY these oldies that had the cap with a vent hole DRILLED right in the top center of the cap. I have had those welded closed filed down & repainted for people. Then the tanks needed to be COMPLETLY drained & dried out . We would store them out side after a LIGHT COATING of black paint to heat them up in the sun. Make sure they are ...upside down.... to let the gasoline fumes drain out easily & fresh air in. about 2 sunny dry days did the job.

I am lazy & cautious about the below deck tanks. I use Seafoam with the first full spring load of gasoline.
ALWAYS put any dry gas additive in.... just before..... refilling a gas tank. That allows the dry gas stuff to really mix with everything nicely.

S M

Thanks for staying on the problem that drives many owners & a lot of great mechanics crazy.

This problem is why inboard fuel tanks have so many filters & seperators.

A gas station CAN get a load of watery gas. Then when the load is poured into the big underground tank. It really screws up everybody for several days. Even for several months. Untill it is diluted by enough " dry " loads.