1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

[Ski-N-Fish]

I have a 1978 85 hp Johnson outboard. Heres the problem the starter is stuck engaged and cranking the fly wheel even when i take the key out of the ignition I have to disconect the battery to stop it from turning the fly wheel. I have replaced the solenoid and the ignition swtich. I thought i had it fixed when i replaced the ignition swtich because the starter disengaged after i turned the key with the new ignition switch in but after i bolted it back up and tried to turn the key the starter engaged and was cranking the fly wheel even when i pulled the key out of the ignition. So i had to remove the battery cable and as soon as i touched it back on the battery the starter began cranking again. Idk if the solenoid is just faulty or if theres a possible short in the wires or if i just need to replace the starter? Anyone know whats going on?

 

[Will Bark]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Sounds like you have crossed some wires incorrectly either on the solinoid or the switch. Someone will chime in that will be able to give you a wiring diagram or tell you what wires go where. You do need to post the model number of your motor so they can zero in on it. Good luck

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Thank you The model # is 85ML78

 

[will62]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Hello Ski-N-Fish. Let's start by attempting to rule out the solenoid as the problem.

Do test in pic with key off...

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

I believe it is the solenoid i just preformed that little test and the starter did not engage. Im assuming the key doesnt not need to be in for this test but there was no responce when i touched the wire. This is surprising to me since i just replaced it and had it working with that solenoid in but then a day or two later this problem accured and i replaced the ignition switch thinking that was the issue.

Tommorow I will replace the solenoid again and let you know if that is the issue

Thank You will62

 

[boobie]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

You either have a bad " new" solenoid or stray voltage on the yellow wire going to it.

 

[will62]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

If you have a good battery, the starter should have moved. Silly question... did you put the battery terminal back on, after the last time that you disconnected it when the starter would not disengage? If so, jump from battery terminal to starter terminal.

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Is there any way to check stray voltage on the wire

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

I did put the terminal back on and when i didint get any response the first time i threw on the charger just to make sure that there was enought juice incase it died for some reason and tried it again and still had no responce.

 

[will62]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Try jumping from the large battery terminal on the solenoid, to the large starter terminal... starter move?

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

the starter moved when i put the large battery terminal from the solenoid on it

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

but the starter is still stuck engaged

 

[Haffiman]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Start by disconnecting the big red contact on engine.
Hook up the battery.
Use a short jumper wire between the pins on the engine side of the multi contact and test the start circuit. I guess you may have a 'short' in one of the multi contacts. You may even check for voltage at the solenoid side (yellow/red) to see if still voltage after key is 'off' the start position. You probably have a low 'leak' voltage keeping the solenoid engaged.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

There is a lot easier test than what's being suggested.

1) Disconnect the wire on the "smaller" terminal on the solenoid. That wire is what energizes the solenoid via the ignition switch.
2) Hook up the battery.
3) Does the starter still engage by itself? Yes or No!
4) If the answer is NO -- the ignitiion switch circuit is the problem. If YES -- the solenoid or the wiring of it is the problem.

The starter cannot spin unless the solenoid is energized (assuming it is wired correctly).

 

[will62]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Did the starter turn slowly, like your battery is still low? The pinion gear needs some rpms to function properly. Do you have a multimeter? I'd like to give you several things that you can continue checking to help narrow down your problem. We've tried the jumper wire, but many of the other tests involve voltage or continuity/resistance readings.

Edit: read Silvertip's post after posting mine. I'll defer to his knowledge... he's been working on these a great deal longer than I have.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

There is a lot easier test than what's being suggested.

1) Disconnect the wire on the "smaller" terminal on the solenoid. That wire is what energizes the solenoid via the ignition switch.
2) Hook up the battery.
3) Does the starter still engage by itself? Yes or No!
4) If the answer is NO -- the ignitiion switch circuit is the problem. If YES -- the solenoid or the wiring of it is the problem.

The starter cannot spin unless the solenoid is energized (assuming it is wired correctly).

The solenoid only need about 10% of current to stay energized compared to what is needed to energize it. This why a low/leak voltage test is needed after it has been energized. The start circuit is for sure the problem, question is where the 'leak' is. Leakage between the pins in the big red contact is quite a 'normal' problem.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

If you remove the heavy red wire to the starter and then put jumper cables from a strong batter to the starter, does it function normally? I've seen old starter solenoids get stuck in the closed position. With age, the internal contacts can get burned so badly that they will still transfer (starter level) current after the key was returned to the run position. That will jam that starter pinion up against the flywheel, create a lot of heat and begin to dramatically discharge the battery.

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

I got the starter unstuck but now my ignition switch isnt getting any power ive checked over and over and all the wiring is in place. Im getting twelve volt to the selenoid but im not getting anything to the small wire when i crank the key to start. ive checked with ameter and im not getting any voltage in any wire to the ignition switch. Ive looked but i cannot find any fuses does anyone know if there even should be any fuses?

 

[will62]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

Glad to hear you got the starter loose. There is a fuse between the solenoid and your harness plug (large red plug). If you can't find it, it may be wrapped inside the harness. Rather than spend too much time looking for it, I would just pull the plug apart and check for continuity from the plug (red/purple wire), to the solenoid. While you have the plug apart, you can also do the continuity checks to verify that your ignition switch is working properly. Stick with it, you'll get this thing figured out pretty soon.

 

[Ski-N-Fish]

Re: 1978 85 hp Johnson V4 Starter Stuck engaged??

I found the fuse and replaced it. I had it turning then it quit. I checked and i now have 12v going into the ignition switch and When i turn the key to the start position i have 12v going to the small wire on the solenoid. so I am guess the solenoid is bad but im not 100% do you think that is the issue everything else seems to be working just fine as far as i can tell