1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Again jigngrub thanks for the links. I did look over the offerings for the vinyl and now even more confuessed (that isn't hard to do for me though) I was wondering do they offer sample material for their vinyl? I need to actually see this stuff to see if it is what I'd want. It seems to look like carpet buy not soft like carpet I take. Just wondering.

As I was cutting out the flooring and of course the raised front deck/seating/driving areas, I noticed the PO liked to drink. There were many OLD beer cans and broken trolling motor plastic props not to mention tons of candy and snack food wrappers underneath. What I didn't see were any evidence of fishing gear like monofilament or hooks and jigs or plugs. So maybe he just went out on the water to pertake in the beer and hoped nothing bothered him like fishing. I also found two cans of what looks like veinna sausages or potted meat of some sort. One of those cans feel empty while the other has a slight dome to the top. I'm not brave enough to try and open either and some how I don't think even catfish would be interested in either as well. Just odd what you will find in these old boats.

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I think before I get too much further, I do need to address this trailer issue and build those support frame to hold the boat somewhat solidly to work inside with the grinding and sanding before any putback begins. I see lots of folks taking about using their angle grinders for such effort but I haven't located any type of hook and loop pad that fits my angle grinds yet. I was looking for the velcro backer pad for my Dewalt angle grinder so I could use 5" velcro sanding pads (e.i. 24, 36, 40 git sanding pads). But I haven't found the backer pad yet. Any ideas? I do have a Ingersol Rand DA 7" high speed body sander but it is pnumatic and my 4.5 HP compressor can't quite keep up with the air demand. So I get about two minutes of quality sanding/grinding and then wait for about 5 minutes for it to cycle again. SO I decided to go electric angle grinder but need to find the backer pad still.

I know this seems like a ton of work for some but I like these type of projects and like to see what I can do to make them not only new again but better then the original. And then I get to use of it to fish too. How can anybody not like that?

Well back to the gind-stone... :laugh: :joyous:

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

When you click on the Defender site link for the Nautolex vinyl the third item down is a Nautolex vinyl sample card for $4.99.

The vinyl does look like carpet and everyone that sees it for the first time has to run their hand over it to see what it feels like.

This is the hook and loop backer for a 4.5" angle grinder:
3M 7451 Scotch-Brite Surface Conditioning Disc, Brown, 4 in, Medium - Amazon.com

I have and use that system and really like it:

The brown coarse discs a pretty aggressive, the medium maroon are pretty good for all around cleaning. You can buy the discs online at Amazon too.

I'm not sure if you've noticed or not, but your pictures aren't working.

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

WOW I didn't know the pictures were not working. Thanks for that bit of info. I seem to have a problem that when I try to include pictures and come back to the site (actually from the get computer option for attachments page) that I get a "Cannot perform that option. You need to log in to do that" type of comment every time now. So I go to the top of the forum and it shows me logged in. Then I have to copy everything I posted and log out and relog in and paste it again to allow me to post. Not sure why. While I am very electronically and mechanically inclined, I am not the brightest computer savy type person... I could easily build one, but not that up to date on their useage. Could be (and probably is) something I'm doing wrong. Also the spell-checker portion doesn't work for me either. It ask to install a program to do so and I haven't done so yet. And believe me spelling is a huge problem with me...you probably noticed that already too. I'll try to update those pictures... Thanks! :faint2: :embarassed:

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Let's see if these pictures come through;



Hope they are there now...

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Looks like they came through this time. :happy:

I've got a question for anybody. I noticed while reading so many project boat rebuilds that most stringers stop short of the transom. Is there a good reasom for that. Wouldn't the stringers attached to the transom lend more support to the entire hull? My stringers (all two of them :lol: ) stop about 4" to 5" short of attaching as well. WHY?

Also if I do install ribs (bulkheads about every 16" or so on this Tom Boy Hull, and plan on going with the mix and pour foam for even more structual support, won't that create supposedly sealed chambers and hold water that WILL get in there? I even thought about cutting some PVC 2" pipe into halfs and installing them with weeping holes first before adding the mix and pour foam but won't the mix and pour foam also enter via the weeping holes blocking them?

Oh, one last thing. If anybody wants one or both of those potted meat or vienna sausages, let me know... :lol:

Still thinking out loud and haven't nailed down exactly what I will go with as yet...

But this is all interesting and I do enjoy these types of projects. Everybody have a wonderful day!!! :happy:

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

I had a very similar stick steer Chrysler "Bass Hunter". I loved that old boat. She had a 65 HP Rude' and would fly on the water. Caught a LOT of crappie oughta that boat!!!! Due to the hull configuration of a Tri-Hull boat the attachment of the stingers to the transom is not that important for structural integrity. They are inherently a very stable hull. Flat bottom or v hulls should have the stringers attached to the transom IMHO but they don't always.

If your boat were my boat, I would use Pool Noodles for floatation and cram as many under the deck as I could They will allow drainage tot he bilge and will never absorb water. The design of your hull lends itself prefectly to the use of them. I would NOT put any bulkheads in, absolutely not needed. I'd use Douglas Fir 2x4's for the "so called Stringers" (actually for your boat they're just deck supports) and use Arauco Plywood for the transom and deck. You can have that boat back together in two months. That is a real easy restore. Does the motor run? Any significant damage to the outer hull? If you've never handled a Stick Steer boat it DOES take some getting used to. You might consider making a small console and installing a steering wheel.

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

I had a very similar stick steer Chrysler "Bass Hunter". I loved that old boat. She had a 65 HP Rude' and would fly on the water. Caught a LOT of crappie oughta that boat!!!! Due to the hull configuration of a Tri-Hull boat the attachment of the stingers to the transom is not that important for structural integrity. They are inherently a very stable hull. Flat bottom or v hulls should have the stringers attached to the transom IMHO but they don't always.

If your boat were my boat, I would use Pool Noodles for floatation and cram as many under the deck as I could They will allow drainage tot he bilge and will never absorb water. The design of your hull lends itself prefectly to the use of them. I would NOT put any bulkheads in, absolutely not needed. I'd use Douglas Fir 2x4's for the "so called Stringers" (actually for your boat they're just deck supports) and use Arauco Plywood for the transom and deck. You can have that boat back together in two months. That is a real easy restore. Does the motor run? Any significant damage to the outer hull? If you've never handled a Stick Steer boat it DOES take some getting used to. You might consider making a small console and installing a steering wheel.

Welcome aboard WOG. I've read quite a few of your replies on other projects. I did plan on the Arauco Plywood for the transom and deck. I was just wondering why all the stringers didn't attach to the transoms.

I have driven a stick steering boat before and liked it very much. I'm not a huge fan of a console just to drive the boat to your favorite fishing hole and then having to relocate to another seat to fish. It seems like a waste of time and not to mention space and extra weight as well. So I like the stick streeing idea a lot. You basically have everything at your finger tips. It also gives your passenger more room as well. So I plan on laying out this boat similar to the Bass Pro Panfish Special in design. I just have to get everything removed and sanded down ready for the new material to go in.

I didn't try to start the 40 HP Johnson mainly because the motor was frozen up. However after removing the foot, the motor was completely freed up and my son and I removed the plugs and did a compression check. Top was 112, bottom was 110. BUT we still didn't try to start it, and I am so glad we didn't too. Seems when the PO hit something with both the boat (he tried a repair) and motor (there was part of the cavitations plate broken off and bent prop blade too) but I didn't know of any other damage at that time. As I started to disassemble the motor, I got this gut feeling I should remove the power-head too. Boy was I glad I did. The lower main crank bearing only had half the balls remaining in the open bearing. And the seal housing was broken too. There were flattened ball bearings and pieces off ball bearing everywhere. So I totally disassembled the motor to completely go through it. While I have never rebuilt an outboard, I have rebuilt many 4 cycle auto engines and transmissions before. So I don't think this is going to be much of a problem to refurbish either. I will post pictures of the engine when they are ready. I took all my pictures at such high resolutions that they won't post until I resize them first. And I have tons of pictures too... everything else in the motor looks and mic’ed out great. So other than some lower bearing problems I think it will run again with little more than seals, bearings and a new set of rings. Why new rings you may ask. Well having it this far disassembled, why not? The actual ring end gap was 25 thousands. The normal gap is supposed to be between 7 and 17 thousands. So even if I decided that the rings were not worn at all and the cylinder was, that means the cylinder was now about 3 thousands bigger…not a problem and not even an amount to warrant reboring. And I know the rings were the wearing problem. I snap gauged the bores in many locations to make sure they were not egg-shaped. Seem the wear is the rings not the bore.

Not discouraged yet and liking this latest boat project... Everybody have a wonderful day...:joyous:

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Good morning everybody. I have a few pictures to post about the lower main bearing failure in my 1976 40 HP Johnson outpoard. WHen you buy used boats from any year past, you seriously need to examine it with a fine tooth comb sort a speak. Here is the some pictures of serious problems that I found on my DEAL of a buy. Notice the steering control cable that the PO had covered over with a few pieces of heat shrink tubing. I just wonder what would happen at WOT and this finally broke... :cold: :mad-new:



Please be careful and look over everything on your latest purchase.

Still not discouraged though and moving on... Everybody have a great and wonderful day... :joyous:

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Also if I do install ribs (bulkheads about every 16" or so on this Tom Boy Hull, and plan on going with the mix and pour foam for even more structual support, won't that create supposedly sealed chambers and hold water that WILL get in there? I even thought about cutting some PVC 2" pipe into halfs and installing them with weeping holes first before adding the mix and pour foam but won't the mix and pour foam also enter via the weeping holes blocking them?

Oh, one last thing. If anybody wants one or both of those potted meat or vienna sausages, let me know... :lol:

Still thinking out loud and haven't nailed down exactly what I will go with as yet...

But this is all interesting and I do enjoy these types of projects. Everybody have a wonderful day!!! :happy:

Looking back at your pics and hull design I can see that you don't need to worry about bilge drainage... because there isn't any bilge drainage. Your bilge design on this boat is completely sealed. What looks to be your bilge drain plug is actually a deck drain plug.

To have good bilge drainage you would need to install 3 bilge drain plugs in your transom, one a the bottom of each of the 3 Vs in your hull... something you may or may not want to do.

Either way, if you go with the drain plugs or the original sealed bilge design you need to go with a waterproof deck design completely to the hull and fiberglassed in. Keep the deck drain plug out when the boat isn't in the water so any water that gets into the boat and on the deck will drain out quickly. Not keeping this plug out and the boat covered was the previous owners folly and is the reason your boat is in the condition it is today... I'm sure your boat sat many days as a 1/4 filled bath tub. Had the deck drain plug been pulled every time the boat was out of the water your boat would be in much better shape than it was when you bought it.

Going with the expanding pour in foam will fill all voids below deck and won't give water any place to accumulate... but again, water should be getting in your bilge to begin with.

Since you have this particular boat design I would strongly advise against installing carpet because of the moisture absorbing properties of it, instead go with a deck finish that will shed water quickly.

As for your canned meat products, put them up for bids on ebay... I'm sure there's some weirdo out there that would pay good money for them.:lol:

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Ha jigngrub, that's a great idea. I was just letting my iboat friends have the opportunity first. But Ebay is a good idea...:laugh:

I have turned some of my attentions to the motor and trailer and work the three projects (boat, motor and trailer) as weather allows. WHile I do have the room inside my shop to pull the trailer and boat in, I try to do most of my work in the attached breeze way to keep dust dirt and such out of the shop. So as I work different segments I'll continue posting results.

Back when I use to build and fly RC planes, we use to take epoxy and mix it up and then thin it out using alcohol until the mixture was similar to water. Then we would apply that mixture to any areas that would see the raw fuel and/or unburn oils to protect them from absorbing any fuel or oil into the wood. Is the application of polyester similar? Do you apply that in a thinned version so that it penetrates further into the wood before applying glass cloth? I haven't noticed anybody thinning it out for that purpose after looking and reading over many transom rebuilds. So I was wondering. I realize you would not use alcohol but some other chemical to thin the polyester mixture out. Or is that overkill and not an issue? I just want to make sure whatever I do that it is going to be a long term replacement. I also notice that most folks don't seem to get that really close fit in any wood replace be it a transom or stringers. I see some leave large areas and mix PB to fill in them. Is there a reason for that as well? Being a woodworker as well, I go for near as possible to perfect fits but I don't see those tight fits doing these boat repairs/rebuilds. Am I missing something?

Back to work, everybody have a wonderful day...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Use the advanced search from the forum homepage, and search for: Thinned epoxy

I'm not sure anyone has ever discussed thinned poly, but based on the discussions @thinned epoxy, I suspect the thinned poly debate would be, lets see, what's the best word.. umm.... heated.

Yep, that ought to cover it :cold: :facepalm:.... Spirited too maybe?

Put me down as a hearty NO THANK YOU, on the indeterminately 'aged' potted meat products.

There have been several thinned epoxy discussions over @ the Starcraft Owners Group forum too, if they don't come up in the advanced search....

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Thinning a material that's already been formulated for penetrating isn't necessary IMO.

As for the close fit on the wood work: A 1/4" gap is what most people are looking for, some get it closer than others. The 1/4" is used because it's much easier to fill/pack a 1/4" gap than a 1/16 or 1/8" gap and you're less likely to leave a void. Any tighter than a 1/4" and you run the risk of just bridging over the gap instead of filling it completely. The PB is used for both filling and bonding, but mainly the bond.

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

WOW jbcurt00, you never know what could be in one or both of those AGED potted meat cans. I think you're passing up a golden opportunity. But I will scratch you off the possible list per your wish...:lol: :crushed:

JNG, thanks again for the info. I'll check out those sanding options and order in the sample card as well...:joyous:

I have read so many pros and cons concerning both epoxy and poly that I haven't decided which to go with just yet. Somehow I feel which ever choice I make will refurbish this boat better then the original manufacturer had it. Some boat builders will cut corners for the bottom line on the profit line. Let the customer deal with it attitude comes to mind with some of them. While this is my first boat project (refurbishing anyway) I can tell you I am learning and reading everything I can possible read. Now the outboard is totally another story. I have never built an outboard, but after completely disassembling this Johnson 40 HP, it seems a little easier then all the 4 cycles I've rebuild thus far. I have already ordered most of the parts (seals, "o" rings, gaskets, bearings and such). I also have stripped, sand-blasted and cleaned all the individual parts in preparation for primer (either etching, Zinc Chromate, or Epoxy haven't decide on that yet either) base coat and top coats of clear. That does bring me to another question concerning the lower foot to this engine. I know there is a bushing and two "O" ring seals installed in the foot for the shifter rod to pass through per the IPB (Illistrated Parts Breakdown);



If you look at part numbers 18, 19, and 20 you will see what I'm questioning. In the actual engine factory manual they show and say to knock these parts out from the top through to the bottom as pictured. My question is these parts look to be installed from the top and therefore should be removed from the bottom up in my uneducated opinion. Has anybody removed these or some similar in there past and know which way to punch them through? The bushing looks bigger in diameter and would never punch through to the bottom. The really odd part aqbout the manual is that it later says to install these through the bottom of the casing as well. Just seems impossible to do that. Any help and/or ideas so I don't damage the case?

As usual, everybody have a great day and those AGED potted meat cans will only be avaible for a short time...think presents for that special one...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

The pix you attached was too small to see details... If you don't get much feedback here, you might try a thread in the Johnson motor forum....

Which manual are you referencing? The original Johnson factory 1976 40E76R specific service manual, a multi-year/model manual, or a Seloc/other aftermarket manual?

It does look like parts #'s 18-20 are installed from above...

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Thanks JNG for the larger picture. I still have problems uploading postings yet. And yes I do have the actual Johnson factory engine manual for only this year of 1976 Johnson 40 HP engines. It covers 40R76, 40E76, 40RL76 and 40EL76. My model is actually 40E76R so maybe there is some type of difference. It does specify to punch out those parts using a (I guess a wooden dowel and hammer) from the top through the bottom. And then in the reassembly section in that same shop manual they tell you to reinstall those parts through the bottom. That does seem impossible being how the bronze bushing (at least that is what it looks like) is so much larger then the actual hole in the bottom looking at it from the bottom and there seem no way to punch it through from the top.

The reason I am posting engine question here is because I thought all projects were to remain in one place. So I am work the boat, motor and trailer via this project location. DO I need to break up this project and place them in the three locations? I seriously don't know and don't want to make waves...okay that was a pun...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Depends....

Ideally, specific motor make/model work questions will get more experienced traffic in that motor's forum, and anything specifically related to setup & operation of a trailer's features (tilt, suspension, and troubleshooting lights) may get more traffic in the trailer & towing forum.

But general how to's: mount a motor, control hook ups, run & plumb fuel lines are more like boat questions that are similar across many makes & models of motor. Same for buying & installing a trailer light kit, it isn't necessarily trailer make/model specific. Cleanup & resto of the motor & trailer can & should be done along side the boat. That way when the boat's done, they are good to go too, so it fits in a resto thread....

If you don't get much feedback about the reverse installation of those parts, you might try a thread over in the Johnson forum. It's up to you. If you do, post a link here in your resto thread, and a link to this thread in your motor thread. Any way to help maximize the # of people reading either, may help get replies in either place.

It only gets to be a problem when the same or very similar questions are posted in multiple places, where different people reply differently. Its hard to track a problem from question thru solution. As a problem is dissected & discussed, some of those details may not be in both locations, so it can get confusing as to how a solution was reached, plus the how & why of the steps taken already.

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Hello all, I haven't worked on the boat in the last few days having turned my attention to finishing sand blasting the disassembled Johnson 40. I have a few items left to blast yet and then a complete detailed cleaning in preparation for the priming and base coat clear coat painting to come. Sand blaster finish will certainly allow whatever type primer I choose because it has so much tooth to grab the primer coat. After doing some more research on etching, zinc chromate and epoxy type primers I'll start with that part of the finishing paint. I have used and like the PPG K36 catalyst type primer and plan on using it over top the selected base primer. Then a few coats of PPG "Shopline" base coat with even more coats of PPG Clearcoat to finish off the painting. I also need to work on the trailer before any additional work on the boat itself get going again. I want to install the four runners (bunks) and the two side bunks before removing the boat to flip upside down to make a strong cradle to support me doing the sanding/grinding inside the hull. I have lots of interesting things to do but am loving it all. I have no date to have it all finished, but since I do like working this project, it is sure to get completed sooner then later...

Oh I still have those two cans of AGED potted meat yet... I thought they would go quickly but I guess not...

Everybody have a wonderful day and I'll post some more pictures when I get them sized down... :watermelon:

 

[gm280]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

Okay I know it seems like I haven't moved forward with this boat, motor, trailer project, but believe me I have. WHile my initial work has about stopped on the boat, I have turned to the motor and really need to get to the trailer also before I can continue working the boat itself. I need to install the four runners (bunkers) on the trailer and between the boat before removing the boat to flip and make a cradle for it to continue working on the inside.

After reading so many other projects on these forums I have to say I have over-load now...

My initial thoughts were to simply remove the transom and flooring and rebuild the boat with 1708 and poly. However, reading more posts I now am wondering if I should change to epoxy instead. Reason? I thought I read where epoxy will stick well to epoxy. However I thought I also read where poly will not work with epoxy. And therein is my problem. Since most boats are built using epoxy and fiberglass, does that mean the poly I planned to go with will not attach to the hull as well as epoxy? I know so many have successfully used both systems with great results but I was just wondering. Any comments will be taken into consideration in which way I go for the boat options now. I have used epoxy and glass before without any problems. But I'm not against poly either. Just need an explanation how the new transom built with poly and glass would securely attach to the epoxy and glass hull... Same with the new flooring. If poly and glass won't work with epoxy how is this going to attach and become a solid boat?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

You got confused there.

Most boats are built with polyester resin, especially the smaller entry level boats like yours. This is because polyester resin cost about half as much as epoxy resin, polyester resin is used to keep manufacturing cost competitive.

You won't have a problem using either product, polyester will bond to polyester and epoxy will bond to polyester. Polyester won't bond well to epoxy.

There are benefits to using both:
1. Polyester resin is half the price of epoxy, this can really add up when you're talking about gallons.

2. Epoxy resin isn't flammable, doesn't have noxious fumes, is very low odor, and can be worked with without a respirator.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1976 Tom Boy Boat, 1976 40 HP Johnson Outboard and who knows what Trailer

It should be noted that some, very few, but some people have allergic reactions to epoxy. Haven't heard of anyone having issues with Poly. I will caution you to not overthink or over analyze this restoration. Use what you read to gain a working knowledge of what you are doing but... It's your boat and you can use and do pretty much what ever you want and however you want. We will be here to guide you if you get to far off the path and get in the Hazardous Zone. Everybody, including yours truly, has their opinion on how boats shold be restored. YOU are doing the work and paying the bill. Ask questions, try to make sure what you will be doing is accepted as safe and sound and then do it. Don't overthink it just "Git er Dun!!!!" I CAN and WILL do this!!! should be your montra!!!!