1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

1. Anybody know where to get the vinyl glasing material for the windshield and front cabin windows.

2. I also need about 85 feet of rub rail insert and can't find anything that looks like the existing profile?

 

[dozerII]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Ebay has many sellers that have the electrical components you are looking for, fuse blocks, bus bars etc:

Rub rail is available but, 85 ft will run you about $260. http://forums.iboats.com/starcraft-boats/official-starcraft-rubrail-thread-501999.html
And also thanks to Sigsaur Wefco 0101G

The vinyl seal for the windows try Taylormade or Taco

 

[Watermann]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

1. I've been working on my Chiefs windshields searching for the same thing for a week now, no luck. Taco Marine
2. Hope you didn't toss your old stuff, if you did then once again... Taco Marine

taco marine - iboats

No exact replacements, but to be expected when dealing with old and obsolete.

 

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

I went to a glass company today and they had the correct profiles for the glazing vinyl but nothing big enough. I spoke with a guy who has been around for a long time and he didn't think I would be able to find the correct profiles. He did have a work around, when he has a window that he can't find the correct glazing for he uses industrial grade silicon with rubber spacers. He stated that it works fine. The project has been on hold waiting on this and I need to move forward so I am going to give the colored industrial silicone a try. Will post pics.

It looks like Wefco is the place to get rub rail inserts.

Thanks to both Waterman & Dozeril for their input.

 

[Watermann]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

So did they have anything similar for the windshield base vinyl seals or did they suggest that you use the same compound?

 

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Right now everyone I have spoken with don't have a product that they think will work. The guy at the glass company told me to use small rubber spacers to position the window correctly in the aluminum extrusion then fill the extrusion with silicone reinsert the window and remove excess silicone. He did say to mask off the window and extrusion which will help getting a clean appearance. I am going to make one last effort to find glazing and then I'm going to give the silicone a try

 

[Grandad]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Right now everyone I have spoken with don't have a product that they think will work. The guy at the glass company told me to use small rubber spacers to position the window correctly in the aluminum extrusion then fill the extrusion with silicone reinsert the window and remove excess silicone. He did say to mask off the window and extrusion which will help getting a clean appearance. I am going to make one last effort to find glazing and then I'm going to give the silicone a try

Hi Steve. I don't have a solution for you, but thought I should mention something I learned about silicone. In a previous life, I learned that the auto mfg industry where I was working was absolutely paranoid about silicone coming anywhere near their paint department. They insisted that nothing, including contractor's tools made from silicone, be brought into the paint department. Keep it away from surfaces yet to be painted. - Grandad

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Right now everyone I have spoken with don't have a product that they think will work. The guy at the glass company told me to use small rubber spacers to position the window correctly in the aluminum extrusion then fill the extrusion with silicone reinsert the window and remove excess silicone. He did say to mask off the window and extrusion which will help getting a clean appearance. I am going to make one last effort to find glazing and then I'm going to give the silicone a try

In Minnesota, you should be able to find a product called Sika-Flex or an equal. I've used it on several varied applications (None @boats or boat glass) and it is used extensively by commercial window glazers to create a water seal against glass. Between the aluminum mullions and glass panels.

It is EXACTLY like 3M 5200: It's sticky, difficult to work w/ sometimes & gets EVERYWHERE. It too is probably more permanent then you'd like, but IMHO, the difficulty in removing it at some point in the future is outweighed by how well it'd work around boat glass w/ aluminum frames.

In fact, Sika-Flex has a PDF online that you may find helpful:
Marine Application Guides | Sika Corporation U.S.

Marine Sealant brochure

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Follow up: I couldn't find it, but I seem to remember something about the solvent used w/ silicone (some? all?) could be reactive w/ aluminum, but couldn't find the reference............ I'm fairly sure it's 1 of the reasons NOT to use silly-cone on an aluminum boat. Wouldn't be the 1st time today I'm wrong.........

 

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Good catch, even though I used the word Silicone I'm actually using a one part polyurethane which is what SikaFlex is. Words have meaning, sorry fir the confusion.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Got it covered then, great.

Good luck, I HATE that stuff. Used 30+ sausage tubes (about a third larger volume then big construction tubes of LigNail) on a project once. Tenacious stuff. Stringy god-awful mess.

Check w/ your supplier for something comparible, SikaFlex has a bonding primer for some surfaces. I think it's listed in one of the Sika links I posted. Extra measure of protection to ensure bonding would probably be worth it around window frames & glass.

 

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Haven't posted in awhile and progress has been slow. I am reinstalling the windows, a lot more work than I first thought. I have tinted all the cabin windows really dark and have reinstalled the side windows and screens. I am pondering how to install the front cabin windows. There was black goop on the inside of the window and frame and then a piece of vinyl glazing material on the outside fitted into a groove in the aluminum extrusion. Since the boat is 40 years old I cannot find that glazing and there is nothing out there that is close enough to work. I am considering using urethane caulk which I can get in gray or 3m window adhesive which only comes in black. My concerns are: the urethane caulk will remain too soft on the outside of the window and the 3M product is designed to act as an adhesive between the metal and glass but will it hold up on the outside of the glass acting like more of a caulk.

Any advice would be appreciated - will post pictures soon.

 

[redneck joe]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

i'm a former glass man. If the windows are real glass not plex go to a glass shop that does autoglass and get a couple tubes of urethane. You may have to heat it in the over - ask them. Put in channel then jam in the glass and screw the corners together. It basically turns into rubber and when it cures you can cut off the excess. You'll hate me if you ever have to replace it but it will work well - and it will have a nice cushion all the way around and not bind..

 

[Watermann]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Steve I too have pulled all of the glass off and apart on my Chief. The gray glazing material that went against the glass with the channel pieces that slides over it acts not only as a seal but a cushion between the glass and metal. I left a sample of it with my local glass company last week with a phone number. Haven't heard back yet.

If I can't find any vinyl glazing then I plan on using a silicone product to seal the panes to the frame channels and the urethane to seal the frames to the cabin. With hull flexing caulk will harden and crack and silicone will flex. I really don't see anything out there that would be better at sealing glass to metal. After all they use it to build aquariums.

 

[redneck joe]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

only think i do not like about silicone is if you have to replace, silicone does not like to adhere to silicone so even after you clean most of it out it will not seal as well and you could end up with a leak - unlikely but possible. The windshield urethane will adhere to itself

 

[Sc25175]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

So Windshield Urethane is different than Windshield Adhesive??

I've been told that Silicone is not the best to use on Aluminum.

 

[redneck joe]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

So Windshield Urethane is different than Windshield Adhesive??

I've been told that Silicone is not the best to use on Aluminum.

honestly not sure we always called it urethane but google tells me its the same. We used both 3M and Sika brands

https://www.google.com/search?q=sik...&espv=210&q=sika+windshield+adhesive&tbm=shop


And we never used silicone on the vehicles they told me it would eat the metal eventually (steel) so probably same on aluminum

 

[Watermann]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Sorry, all my framing is primed and alkyd enamel painted not bare since SC decided to use ferrous T-bolts and screws. Everyone thinks that anything eats up aluminum but I've taken apart 100's if not 1000's of pieces, parts, nuts and bolts from tin boats. In my experience (not hearing it from somewhere) I've peeled off adhered silicone to see pristine both bare and painted aluminum surfaces under it. Seems that lots of boat owners try to use silicone. The silicone I used for bare aluminum is the DAP 3.0 without the acid that etches metal.

Anyway thinking about it more I think 3M 4200 fast cure could be a better way to go on bare aluminum just don't know about it bonding to glass.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

Sorry, all my framing is primed and alkyd enamel painted not bare since SC decided to use ferrous T-bolts and screws. Everyone thinks that anything eats up aluminum but I've taken apart 100's if not 1000's of pieces, parts, nuts and bolts from tin boats. In my experience (not hearing it from somewhere) I've peeled off adhered silicone to see pristine both bare and painted aluminum surfaces under it. Seems that lots of boat owners try to use silicone. The silicone I used for bare aluminum is the DAP 3.0 without the acid that etches metal.

Not a lot of people hoping to seal a tin boat leak are actually looking for the acid free silicon. But they should be.

I personally simplify it to: Don't use silicone. I'd rather err on the side of caution, and it isn't bad advice.

I put it in the same category as foaming an aluminum fuel tank in at installation. Properly prepped, primed (?also debated?) & painted the paint protects the aluminum from any water that might get trapped in the foam against the tank. Unpainted aluminum tank, nope wouldn't foam it.

If the silicone lifts, and it often does, it'll trap water under it, possibly against bare aluminum. If water's trapped, it could allow corrosion to start, and if the silicon etched the aluminum as well, you've doubly lost the battle.

Not the war perhaps. As evidenced by several tin boat builds lately, corrosion is usually more pervasive & worse then expected once you start digging into a project, but it can often be overcome. Sometimes it takes some creativity and a well thought out plan, but it can be overcome.

 

[barato2]

Re: 1972 Chieftain MKIV 25 footer ver 2

for above-waterline stuff or when i don't have a tube of 4200/5200 handy, i use Lexel....bonds much better to metal than sillycone